Queenless after MAQs

[Jimmys Mum]

I've put two of my stronger colonies on MAQs and the other 4 on Apilife Var this year. Today as it was quite bright and warm here, and the 7 day treatment was up, I took off the MAQS and took a look.

Hive 1 - boiling over with bees, no larvae but lots of sealed brood and the start of egg laying again. Couldn't see the marked 2013 queen but seeing eggs gives me confidence that all is well.

Hive 2 - also very very busy BUT no sign of any larvae or eggs OR my lovely marked 2012 queen. Instead they have traded her in for six blinkin sealed queen cells. These are over 4 frames and pretty centrally placed on the frame. Just to note, I checked this hive 5 days before MAQS went on and queen was there and laying well.

There's not a drone to be found in any of my colonies and the weather looks pants for the immediate future.....so.....rather than leave them to it when the odds are stacked against them. I'm inclined to break down every queen cell and see if I can buy in a mated queen that I hope to obtain from a very nice chap on the forum!

Does this sound like a sensible course of action? Is it an okay time to introduce a new queen? I really would rather not unite if at all possible. Being relatively new, I would appreciate some advice.

(Oh and just for interest, the varroa drop from the Apilife var after the first week was significantly higher than from the MAQS but I guess the post treatment monitoring will the the crucial indicator of how successful the treatments were.)

Thanks
JM

 

[pargyle]

Don't think you have another option.... no drones left in my hive and I would think that it's pretty general ... weather's not looking like an Indian summer to any great extent and by the time your new queens have hatched you would be very lucky to get one mated ...

Buying in a mated queen ASAP looks like only sensible option.

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Don't think you have another option.... no drones left in my hive and I would think that it's pretty general ... weather's not looking like an Indian summer to any great extent and by the time your new queens have hatched you would be very lucky to get one mated ...

Buying in a mated queen ASAP looks like only sensible option.

Thanks. Yes, sadly, I'm sure you are right.

Having read of a few queen losses with MAQS, I think I would be inclined to use them a lot earlier next year, if at all. All in all, I think the initial negative reaction of the bees, the corroded frame runners and condensation issues along with losing my queen (which I accept may be co-incidental) would make me stick with Thymol next year unless I needed to emergency treat mid season with supers on. Apilife Var is working a treat in my other colonies.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Sorry for your loss, Jimmy's Mum, but thanks for the useful info. Good luck with the Q; I know they are around. Also, you don't have to merge the Q- hive, right? how about merging 2 of the weaker Q+ ones; win-win?

 

[Swarm]

Negative reaction? Condensation? Corrosion? I agree about the coincidence part.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

“Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: 'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action'.” ― Ian Fleming, Goldfinger.

 

[beeno]

Sorry, that it would appear that you lost a queen due to MAQ treatment. I would buy in a mated queen or unite with one of your nucs. Best of luck.

 

[Pete D]

Today as it was quite bright and warm here, and the 7 day treatment was up, I took off the MAQS and took a look.

Hive 2 - also very very busy BUT no sign of any larvae or eggs OR my lovely marked 2012 queen. Instead they have traded her in for six blinkin sealed queen cells. These are over 4 frames and pretty centrally placed on the frame. Just to note, I checked this hive 5 days before MAQS went on and queen was there and laying well.

Thanks
JM

Hi Jimmy,
just taking the above comments in isolation I would say its not a MAQ's issue. It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell. Also if no larvae of any age the queen stopped laying 9 or 10 days ago, ie just after last inspection.
Regardless, buying a queen is the way to go this time of the year once verified that you are queenless. Someone nearby maybe doing some unites, spread the word.
Good luck

 

[beenovice]

This is great information, but makes me quite worried. I used MAQS on my hive a week ago last Saturday, and removed it last Saturday. I didn't want to disturb the hive too much when I removed the MAQS. Varroa drop on removal was 12. My concern now is that the queen is ok. I'm not brilliant at spotting her so hoped this week would give a chance for grubs to develop. I would then know they were post MAQS.
I obviously need to have a look sooner rather than later to see if I need to aquire a queen.
Bees were acting normally on MAQS removal day, very active, bringing in lots of pollen off the Balsom.
Any advice?

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Negative reaction? Condensation? Corrosion? I agree about the coincidence part.

Just saying it as it happened for me Thought others might be interested.

I think perhaps you had a better experience?

 

[Jimmys Mum]

Hi Jimmy,
just taking the above comments in isolation I would say its not a MAQ's issue. It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell. Also if no larvae of any age the queen stopped laying 9 or 10 days ago, ie just after last inspection.
Regardless, buying a queen is the way to go this time of the year once verified that you are queenless. Someone nearby maybe doing some unites, spread the word.
Good luck

Hi Pete,
Yes, thinking about it, you could well be right..... the queen cells may not in this case be a MAQS issue. Although the lack of open brood in either hive seems to indicate that this lack of larvae seen could be down to MAQS? I wonder if the bees might have removed eggs/young larvae in those first 48hrs? Who knows.
I really didn't want to scare-monger, and apologies if I've worried anyone but as others were posting their MAQS experiences and people are understandably interested in hearing how this treatment is going, I thought I'd report in.
As I said, my other hive seems fine and dandy (although clearly there has been a brood break).

Thanks for the advice re buying in a queen. Fingers crossed

 

[VEG]

Queens also go off lay when apiguard is used.

 

[oliver90owner]

Pete D,

Do your time line again. Emergency queen cells are not all drawn on eggs just laid. 3 day old larvae are soon capped as queens.

RAB

 

[itma]

Hi Jimmy,
just taking the above comments in isolation I would say its not a MAQ's issue. It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell. Also if no larvae of any age the queen stopped laying 9 or 10 days ago, ie just after last inspection.
Regardless, buying a queen is the way to go this time of the year once verified that you are queenless. Someone nearby maybe doing some unites, spread the word.
Good luck

Yes.

With a thread title like this, it is easy to see how "the word on the internet" might lead people to think that MAQS was responsible, when in actual fact ...


I'd rephrase it that if there was no open brood at all, then there have been no eggs laid for at least 9 days - maybe more, but the egg-laying must have stopped at least 2 days before the MAQS started.
Q must have known in advance what was being planned!

 

[drstitson]

"It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell"

as per rab (o2o) - eggs day 1-3; sealed day 8.5-9. so that's roughly 5-6 days from egg to sealed. less if really desperate and forced to use day old larvae.

emergency/supercedure situations are NOT the same as organised swarming where eggs are laid in queen cups so it is >7 days from nil to sealed cell.
(but even in true swarm mode desperate bees may act quicker especially if cells torn down on 1 or more occasions without formally removing swarm fever).

BUT - one has to look at the state of all brood to determine when last eggs/young larvae may have been present.

 

[Tom Bick]

"It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell"

as per rab (o2o) - eggs day 1-3; sealed day 8.5-9. so that's roughly 5-6 days from egg to sealed. less if really desperate and forced to use day old larvae.

emergency/supercedure situations are NOT the same as organised swarming where eggs are laid in queen cups so it is >7 days from nil to sealed cell.
(but even in true swarm mode desperate bees may act quicker especially if cells torn down on 1 or more occasions without formally removing swarm fever).

BUT - one has to look at the state of all brood to determine when last eggs/young larvae may have been present.

Sorry but am I missing something or does this post need rethinking

 

[drstitson]

"Sorry but am I missing something or does this post need rethinking"

in what sense?

sealed queen cells does not necessarily mean >7 days since process initiated.

that may or may not be relevent in the OPs case.

 

[dickbowyer]

Jimmy's Mum, are they emergency or supersedure cells you are seeing? They look quite different usually and might answer MAQ responsible or coincidental with established supersedure debate. If the latter 2012 queen might still be there. Might be worth a look in a few days to see if there are newly laid eggs? You really need to know if queenless before trying to introduce a new queen.

 

[Tom Bick]

"It takes longer than 7 days to make and seal a queen cell"

as per rab (o2o) - eggs day 1-3; sealed day 8.5-9. so that's roughly 5-6 days from egg to sealed. less if really desperate and forced to use day old larvae.

emergency/supercedure situations are NOT the same as organised swarming where eggs are laid in queen cups so it is >7 days from nil to sealed cell.
(but even in true swarm mode desperate bees may act quicker especially if cells torn down on 1 or more occasions without formally removing swarm fever).

BUT - one has to look at the state of all brood to determine when last eggs/young larvae may have been present.

You may be trying to explain something else but its a bit confusing to me

 

[drstitson]

no - trying to explain that in an emergency it takes <7 days to make and seal a queen cell.