Queen improvement for an idiot

[B+.]

So I import strains of bees that are obviously much better adapted to my local environment than the locals....given their prodigious honey yields. They are even gentle to work with and rarely swarm.

This is the odd thing about the native vs non-native argument. How can imports perform much better than home-grown colonies if the natives are so-well adapted to our climate?
I came to the conclusion that this was complete hogwash. There is really not that much difference (if any) between our climate and that of our European neighbours.

 

[Beefriendly]

How can imports perform much better than home-grown colonies if the natives are so-well adapted to our climate?
I came to the conclusion that this was complete hogwash. There is really not .

How can anything become adapted to its environment when kept in artificial conditions, like a hive. Get treated for life threatening parasites and then get fed when they have eaten all their winter stores.
This is not local adaption, it's the start of domestication.
To suggest that local bees are somehow better adapted shows remarkable stupidity.

 

[Hivemaker.]

There is really not that much difference (if any) between our climate and that of our European neighbours.

Are you talking just our immediate European neighbors here, like France.

 

[B+.]

Are you talking just our immediate European neighbors here, like France.

Yes. France (I know its climate varies considerably - but, so does ours), Netherlands, Germany,etc - not the Baltic countries as they are much colder in winter (and certainly not Finland - before Finman chips in).

 

[For want of a better word]

Not wanting to be misinterpreted as opening a can of worms, but I read that the Cornish dark bees were seeded with / from Irish bees, which in turn were seeded by Dutch bees, so don't you mean "all within the ... dark ... honeybee (Amm)", or do you mean that because the bees are being bred locally they are now defined as "local" and therefore "native"? What is being meant as "native" within the British and Irish context? I've been told I should buy local queens, which means locally bred, but then the word local and native are being interchanged?

A lot of work has been carried out on the Amm in Cornwall, at various establishments here and in Europe.

Dr Jonathan Ellis from University of Plymouth did a lot of comparative analyses and the conclusion was that the CORNISH Amm are not closely related to any other Amm and in fact are spacially distant genetically from each other ( Three distinct groups)

Unfortunately some who have not had the privileged position that I have of seeing this so far unpublished work....... will disagree.

And of course will continue to be ignorant of the facts, and will vehemently put there own incorrect ideas forward.

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

A lot of work has been carried out on the Amm in Cornwall, at various establishments here and in Europe.

That's great. Send me some workers and I'll ask Prof Brascamp to have them independently analysed while I'm over in The Netherlands next weekend

 

[Hivemaker.]

Yes. France (I know its climate varies considerably

Yes, much different climate in the south of France compared to northern Scotland... or even here.

 

[B+.]

Yes, much different climate in the south of France compared to northern Scotland... or even here.

Indeed. But that variation supports my position rather than detracts from it.

 

[TooBee...]

Dr Jonathan Ellis from University of Plymouth ... conclusion was that the CORNISH Amm are not closely related to any other Amm and in fact are spacially distant genetically from each other ( Three distinct groups)

Unfortunately some who have not had the privileged position that I have of seeing this so far unpublished work....... will disagree.

And of course will continue to be ignorant of the facts, and will vehemently put there own incorrect ideas forward.

Yeghes da

Thanks for that extra info.
then based on what you have said there is the possibility that the cornish strain / subspecie that you have / are referring to, may be directly descended from the Old British Black Bee before the Isle of Wight Disease.

However I too will remain "ignorant of the facts" without that "unpublished work" that you refer to, is it possible to get a copy of it?

 

[Finman]

.
What do you achieve with this "local" debating and comparing climates.

Italian queens from Italy do well in Finland and all Carniolan bees do too.

We do not have natives honey bees, what to repeat every day.
.

.

 

[TooBee...]

...say the classic reference for British Black bees, the Colonsay Amm's.

If my memory is serving me correctly, the same scientific article that I read also referenced the Colonsay bees, in that it claimed that they too were seeded from Irish bees (quite recently, I think the context was in the 10 - 20 year range) and they in turn had been seeded from Dutch (imported) bees, all Amm's, a few decades before that.

 

[Finman]

may be directly descended from the Old British Black Bee

]

What heck advantage is that? Where is then the breeding work during 100 last years....jumped directly 100 years just that you only say it.

I remember what were bees 50 years ago. Direct rubbish. No one cry after them. Perhaps after Black bee.

 

[Poly Hive]

If you believe that the native bees were wiped out by the IOW then sorry that is utter rubbish put out by BA who really was not in a position to know.

Think about it. He was in Devon in monastic orders so hardly able to know what was happening in other parts of the country apart from the press and we all know how reliable a medium they are.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

Not sure your memory is serving you correctly, although I would be intereseted in the source of this information.

Easiest understandable work is from Catherine Thompson's PhD thesis where she did DNA analysis on these various bees. A chart from her thesis (available on line) is shown below.
Even the most "pure" Amm's showed some introgression from various imports. Italian and something else I seem to recall for the Colonsay Amm's.

 

[For want of a better word]

Catherine did not include any samples from Cornwall, the work funded by the B4 project post dates her work.

B+ would be pleased to send you some workers to analyses, but as I am tied in with the B4 project and Plymouth and Edinburgh Rosslyn, I think the request would be better sent to B4.

PM me your details so that I can forward them to B4, and get the correct sampling protocols etc set up.
We need to get the various institutions working together on all honey bee research.

Thanks

 

[Finman]

We need to get the various institutions working together on all honey bee research.

Thanks

Just like that!

Give to them money. Then they work.

Lasi Queen Project has for example a private funding.

 

[Repwoc]

Even the most "pure" Amm's showed some introgression from various imports[/IMG]

In fact it appears that they are all substantially less than 1% AMM, if the x-axis is correct.

 

[B+.]

PM me your details s

PM sent

 

[For want of a better word]

PM sent

Thanks P... got it!
D

 

[Beefriendly]

In fact it appears that they are all substantially less than 1% AMM, if the x-axis is correct.

In this graph 1 is the equivalent of 100%/.