Propolised Lug Ends

[charlievictorbravo]

One of the biggest problems I have during inspections is propolis sticking the ends of the top bars of frames to the hive wall. During each inspection, this seal is broken but the bees' engineering is such that the frame then only just fits back into the hive. There must be a simple way of overcoming this but what is the best solution?

An advertisement in the BBKA News shows frames that incorporate plastic corners into which you fit the timber or mdf bars. The plastic top corner mouldings appear to have a very small area of potential contact between the frame and the hive wall, which seems like a good idea. Anybody altered a standard frame top bar to reduce the potential for propolis to stick the frame to the hive?

CVB

 

[oliver90owner]

Hive tool.

 

[Summerslease]

Castellated brood box

 

[Tom Bick]

Some bees love propolis and others dont seem to bother a great deal. If it’s bad now it may well be very bad come the end of the season

I have never tried it but understand if you apply petroleum jelly to the frame lugs and touching parts of the hive and frames it greatly reduces propolis or at least slows the bees down sticking everything together.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think castellations in the brood box are the devil's work......rolling bees on every frame!
I had this problem in my MB boxes so all the frames get a little sawn off one end to make them a looser fit in the box. The extra space is not propolised, even by my sticky Buckies.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

One of the biggest problems I have during inspections is propolis sticking the ends of the top bars of frames to the hive wall. During each inspection, this seal is broken but the bees' engineering is such that the frame then only just fits back into the hive. There must be a simple way of overcoming this but what is the best solution?

An advertisement in the BBKA News shows frames that incorporate plastic corners into which you fit the timber or mdf bars. The plastic top corner mouldings appear to have a very small area of potential contact between the frame and the hive wall, which seems like a good idea. Anybody altered a standard frame top bar to reduce the potential for propolis to stick the frame to the hive?

CVB

Some of the keepers in my association cut the corners off the ends of the top bars of each brood frame thus leaving only a very small area for the bees to bond to the sidewalls of the hive. I've not done it to mine but I may modify the next set of frames I assemble as a trial. Ideally you need to do the mod before the frame is in use.

 

[YorkshireBees]

...
I have never tried it but understand if you apply petroleum jelly to the frame lugs and touching parts of the hive and frames it greatly reduces propolis or at least slows the bees down sticking everything together.

I do that and YES it really helps a lot. Well I actually smear it along the rail / box side where the frames will rest / touch rather than the frame ends themselves.

 

[REDWOOD]

Splitting the frames apart is easily done if you hold your hive tool vertically and push it between the frame spacers

 

[Arfermo]

I think castellations in the brood box are the devil's work......rolling bees on every frame!
QUOTE]

Rubbish. Rolling is just careless handling.

 

[REDWOOD]

I think castellations in the brood box are the devil's work......rolling bees on every frame!
QUOTE]

Rubbish. Rolling is just careless handling.

Enlightenment please

 

[Moggs]

Check your bee spaces. Generally, if bees need a gap they leave a gap. If they have difficulty moving through a gap they will propolise it. Box dimensions are such that bees have free space where they may need it. Has your woodwork been assembled to exact dimensions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think castellations in the brood box are the devil's work......rolling bees on every frame!
QUOTE]

Rubbish. Rolling is just careless handling.

Arfermo,
I did start my sentence with "I think"
For me there is not enough space.
I do not consider myself a careless handler of bees but perhaps I may be less deft than you.

 

[Swarm]

Enlightenment please

Use the hive tool to lever the frames from the slot onto the pillar. Release every frame, then inspect and replace as you go.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Hive tool.

Who are you calling a hive tool??

Summerlease - I don't see how a castellated runner would help with the problem of the bees propolising the end of the top bar.

Tom Bick - Petroleum Jelly is well worth a try - are we sure it won't harm the bees - I'm a bit worried about the "petroleum" aspect.

Ericalfbee - sawing a bit of of one end of the top bar might solve the problem of being a tight fit when replacing the frame in the hive but it's at the expense of beespace around the side bars. isn't it?

Gilberdyke John - Cutting the corner off the end of the top bar seems like a simple solution and is similar to the plastic frame-corner solution. I've sketched an extension of this idea that reduces even more the area available for the bees to propolise. What do you think?

Yorkshire Bee - Vaseline (petroleum jelly) along the rail/box side seems like a good idea with the only reservation of whether the material harms the bees.

Moggs - you ask about checking hive dimensions. According to Dave Cushman's site, a National top bar is 432mm long and the distance between the vertical part of the rails' rebates is 436mm so there is only 2mm of a gap (in theory) at each end of the frame. The rails' dimensions don't have to very far out for the gap to be reduced and even if the dimensions are correct, I'm sure my bees could propolise a 2mm gap in no time, which is what I am finding and why I started to thread.

So, is the sketch a possible solution, combined with petroleum jelly (if this proves to be safe)?

CVB

 

[MuswellMetro]

Requeen with a less propolising bee

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Who are you calling a hive tool??

Summerlease - I don't see how a castellated runner would help with the problem of the bees propolising the end of the top bar.

Tom Bick - Petroleum Jelly is well worth a try - are we sure it won't harm the bees - I'm a bit worried about the "petroleum" aspect.

Ericalfbee - sawing a bit of of one end of the top bar might solve the problem of being a tight fit when replacing the frame in the hive but it's at the expense of beespace around the side bars. isn't it?

Gilberdyke John - Cutting the corner off the end of the top bar seems like a simple solution and is similar to the plastic frame-corner solution. I've sketched an extension of this idea that reduces even more the area available for the bees to propolise. What do you think?

Yorkshire Bee - Vaseline (petroleum jelly) along the rail/box side seems like a good idea with the only reservation of whether the material harms the bees.

Moggs - you ask about checking hive dimensions. According to Dave Cushman's site, a National top bar is 432mm long and the distance between the vertical part of the rails' rebates is 436mm so there is only 2mm of a gap (in theory) at each end of the frame. The rails' dimensions don't have to very far out for the gap to be reduced and even if the dimensions are correct, I'm sure my bees could propolise a 2mm gap in no time, which is what I am finding and why I started to thread.

So, is the sketch a possible solution, combined with petroleum jelly (if this proves to be safe)?

CVB

I have a photo I took yesterday of a modified frame in a BABKA association hive. For some reason I can't get it to upload to this thread but it did upload to my photo album. If you care to check that out you will see the modification..your sketch is pretty close

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ericalfbee - sawing a bit of of one end of the top bar might solve the problem of being a tight fit when replacing the frame in the hive but it's at the expense of beespace around the side bars. isn't it?


CVB

The point of sawing just the one end (and we are talking of just about 3mm here) is that after replacing the frame I can push it up toward the un-sawn edge.So no bee space compromise; works for me.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have a photo I took yesterday of a modified frame in a BABKA association hive. For some reason I can't get it to upload to this thread but it did upload to my photo album. If you care to check that out you will see the modification..your sketch is pretty close

I looked at your photo and it is indeed very similar to my sketch. Maybe that modification to my frames (when the frames are out of service) in combination with petroleum jelly is the answer. Thanks for that.

CVB

 

[Somerford]

Some genetic strains hardly propolise, some cover everything. I used to see a correlation between high propolising and proximity to horse chestnuts..

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I have a photo I took yesterday of a modified frame in a BABKA association hive. For some reason I can't get it to upload to this thread but it did upload to my photo album. If you care to check that out you will see the modification..your sketch is pretty close

I have modified one frame in accordance with my sketch and I will shortly put it in my hive - see attached picture. I don't see any reason why this would not help solve the problem.

Clearly, it would be easier to mod the top bar before the frame is made up but I did this one on my bench sander in about three minutes.

Now, what about this Vaseline (petroleum jelly) - is it safe inside a hive?

CVB