Problem with thymol pre-mix

[itma]

In principal, one might even use veg oil as the Thymol solvent. But using alcohol (and as little as possible) seems to be a proven way to go.

I would not give this a go as vegtable oil and water don't mix where as the small chain alcohols do which is kind of critical if you are going to dissolve things.

Surgical spirit contains castor oil and without the addition of the lecithin it wouldn't mix with water. the lecithin is added to emulsify the thymol solution so it DOES mix with water

Don't understand your point. Was simply saying using veg oil is a complete non-starter in my book.
...

Yes, you quite clearly don't understand.
It seems your book doesn't include lecithin.
Its function, in all the recipe variations discussed in this thread is to produce a stable emulsion, distributing the thymol throughout the syrup.
In no case does the Thymol dissolve to any significant extent into the aqueous phase. The big idea is to make an emulsion.
Lecithin works beautifully to emulsify supermarket (oil and vinegar) salad dressings ...



Please try harder to resist the temptation to attack my posts simply because you have not understood them.
Its really getting rather tiresome.

 

[Polyanwood]

I have never had trouble with the hivemaker recipe, even when I used my husband's overproof rum instead of isopropyl alcohol it worked. The person who insisted on tasting a drop agaisnt my advice was very, very sorry. certainly not stuff to mess ab out with.

 

[Skyhook]

A possible 'test' to narrow down my problem. Having dissolved the thymol in alcohol, have people found it crystallizes out if left to cool?

If so, but it still works, I reckon my problem is with the lecithin stage. If it should stay in a stable solution in alcohol, I reckon my problem is with the alcohol, as it doesn't.

Hope that makes sense.

.

 

[Luminos]

I had no crystallisation problems with mine.
Surgical spirit is sold as "90% alcohol" here

 

[ShaneR]

The surgical spirits I use has the following ingredients:

Virgin Castor Oil 2.5% v/v
Methyl Salicylate 0.5% v/v
Diethyl Phthalate 2.0% v/v
Industrial Methylated Spirit 95% v/v

 

[itma]

The surgical spirits I use has the following ingredients:

Virgin Castor Oil 2.5% v/v
Methyl Salicylate 0.5% v/v
Diethyl Phthalate 2.0% v/v
Industrial Methylated Spirit 95% v/v

A spot of Methyl Salicylate (Oil of Wintergreen) should be a useful addition!
Its an old beekeepers' nostrum against Acarine ...

And maybe a dose of Castor Oil might help to get things "cleared through" before winter ...

But Diethyl Phthalate isn't quite so nice.

 

[user 6228]

how about dipropanyl glycol as a solvent

 

[farbee]

Yes, you quite clearly don't understand.
It seems your book doesn't include lecithin.
Its function, in all the recipe variations discussed in this thread is to produce a stable emulsion, distributing the thymol throughout the syrup.
In no case does the Thymol dissolve to any significant extent into the aqueous phase. The big idea is to make an emulsion.
Lecithin works beautifully to emulsify supermarket (oil and vinegar) salad dressings ...



Please try harder to resist the temptation to attack my posts simply because you have not understood them.
Its really getting rather tiresome.

OK then so veg oil would be a possible solvent for thymol. The veg oil will not mix. What is there to disagree with.
Not attaching your post just pointing out it is a silly idea

 

[Skyhook]

OK then so veg oil would be a possible solvent for thymol. The veg oil will not mix. What is there to disagree with.
Not attaching your post just pointing out it is a silly idea

Not wishing to take sides here, but have you taken on board the point of the emulsifying agent?

 

[farbee]

Not wishing to take sides here, but have you taken on board the point of the emulsifying agent?

OK lets take it from the start.

Thymol is not very soluble in syrup or water. OK. Not argument. So it is dissolved in a isoproyl alcohol. Isopropyl alchohol will dissolve very well in water or syrup but the thymol that was in it does not. Hence although some thymol is dissolved some does not. Hence hivemaker introduced using an emulsifer ie lecthin to form a emulsion between the syrup and thymol.
Now if you dissolve your thymol in veg oil as it is non polar it will dissolve much better in the veg oil than the syrup. So probably non will dissolve in the syrup at all as it has a much higher affinity for the veg oil. So as the veg oil itself is very non polar it does not mix with the syrup. Hence you would need to emusify the thymol and the veg oil to get anything like as good a mixture. The hivemaker recipe does not have the veg oil so would probably not have enough lecthin. You could probably try adding more but it is really not worth experimenting with something that is clearly making things worse than with iso propyl alcohol. If you were desperate there are much better options eg vodka.

Now I hope you can see why in my opinion I would steer well clear of even thinking about dissovling your thymol in veg oil.

 

[Skyhook]

OK then so veg oil would be a possible solvent for thymol. The veg oil will not mix. What is there to disagree with.
Not attaching your post just pointing out it is a silly idea

OK lets take it from the start.

Thymol is not very soluble in syrup or water. OK. Not argument. So it is dissolved in a isoproyl alcohol. Isopropyl alchohol will dissolve very well in water or syrup but the thymol that was in it does not. Hence although some thymol is dissolved some does not. Hence hivemaker introduced using an emulsifer ie lecthin to form a emulsion between the syrup and thymol.
Now if you dissolve your thymol in veg oil as it is non polar it will dissolve much better in the veg oil than the syrup. So probably non will dissolve in the syrup at all as it has a much higher affinity for the veg oil. So as the veg oil itself is very non polar it does not mix with the syrup. Hence you would need to emusify the thymol and the veg oil to get anything like as good a mixture. The hivemaker recipe does not have the veg oil so would probably not have enough lecthin. You could probably try adding more but it is really not worth experimenting with something that is clearly making things worse than with iso propyl alcohol. If you were desperate there are much better options eg vodka.

Now I hope you can see why in my opinion I would steer well clear of even thinking about dissovling your thymol in veg oil.

I can see why you might not consider it your first choice, but as the point about emulsification has been addressed, saying "the veg oil will not mix" and describing it as "a silly idea", seems rather stronger language than is required.

.

 

[farbee]

I can see why you might not consider it your first choice, but as the point about emulsification has been addressed, saying "the veg oil will not mix" and describing it as "a silly idea", seems rather stronger language than is required.

.

Well I think its silly as a choice.

 

[Skyhook]

Ok, now here's the funny thing. The jar of thymol mix which I made set when it cooled. Each time I've used it I've had to re-heat it, after which It's set solid again. I went to use it this evening, and it had remained completely liquid after it's last use- in other words, it seems to have recovered from whatever was wrong with it.

Now I'm really flummoxed.

.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Funnily enough the batch i made last month keeps setting too - dunno why, exactly the same ingredients and method as I've used in the past.
It's them mobile phone masts again!