polystyrene hives not recommended for overwintering

[B+.]

You are not serious...

If you breed a honeybee, which can live in frost temps, the bee will not need honey store for winter.

That breeding is seriously much more harmfull than all GM things together.
Authorities should take off your breeding licence.

I am serious. I have already stated that I use stock with the highest breeding values I can get, and attempt to breed better bees. Surely, this is what you'd expect any breeder to do?
To breed from my weakest stock would be ridiculous.

 

[Finman]

I am serious. I have already stated that I use stock with the highest breeding values I can get, and attempt to breed better bees. Surely, this is what you'd expect any breeder to do?
To breed from my weakest stock would be ridiculous.

Breeder should move his hives to better pastures, if there are no bee flowers on territory.

.

 

[Finman]

I am serious.
To breed from my weakest stock would be ridiculous.

So the guys do when they keep their supersedure queen in the hive.

 

[B+.]

So the guys do when they keep their supersedure queen in the hive.

Perhaps so. I don't use apiary mated queens as queen mothers(2a) but I may use them as drone mothers (4a)

 

[Finman]

.
When I have kept supersedure queens, they are almost always under average.
.

 

[B+.]

Breeder should move his hives to better pastures, if there are no bee flowers on territory.

.

There was plenty of forage apart from a gap in July until the ivy flowered. As it is, the best of my test colonies produced almost 300lbs of honey so they weren't suffering from lack of pasture. The only thing I could possibly have done was move them to heather in August but that would have meant a long drive for an uncertain crop.
You shouldn't confuse the breeding with the beekeeping side though Finman. The genetics of my line of carnica are just fine.

 

[Finman]

.
I have studied biology and genetics in university and I have nursed bees more than you. Only what I do not understand is, that we have different climate.

In some part of Finland we have already half metre snow.
Just now I have here 5C.

Confuse breeding with beekeeping? I do boath at same time. They are mixed already..

 

[B+.]

.
When I have kept supersedure queens, they are almost always under average.
.

A supercedure queen should be ok if the mating is good. It depends on the drones she mates with.

 

[Finman]

A supercedure queen should be ok if the mating is good. It depends on the drones she mates with.

They are not. Hive supersedures because there is something wrong in the queen.

Breeding means that the beekeeper select the best hive. That will not happen in superceding hive. Where is that selection by human?

Reason to supersede is not poor mating. Nosema is one reason. Violated leg, antenna and many other reason. Back to beekeeping school man!

 

[Finman]

.
When I started beekeeping 50 years ago, and I bought tens of swarms anf I united them to 4 kg colonies. Quite often the hives superseded the queen after a month .

i thought that queen had not anything wrong, but those black mongrels just changed queen for sure.

But tens of years I have kept only one year old queens, and hives have supeseded very seldom. It proves that mating is not a big reason.

Australians have researched that selling too youg queens put the bees supercede intoduced queens. 30% is an usual figure.

 

[B+.]

Breeding means that the beekeeper select the best hive. That will not happen in superceding hive. Where is that selection by human?

Reason to supersede is not poor mating. Nosema is one reason. Violated leg, antenna and many other reason. Back to beekeeping school man!

I already said in post 144 that apiary mated queens would not be used as queen mothers. However, they can be used as drone mothers because of parthenogenesis

I agree, supercedure may occur as a result of injury or age of the old queen. However, the supercedure queens drones are still good. The workers she produces may be a problem though because they are dependent on the drones the queen mates with

 

[Finman]

.
I wonder, how do you know that reason of supersedure does not come via daughter line, like sensitivenes to nosema?

But there was a guy, Roger, who wrote that all problems in beekeeping derives from poor mating. That happens, if you rear queens too early in spring.

 

[Thymallus]

However, this approach allows less "fit" genes to survive and pass their genes on to the next generation. This is a downward spiral.

Recent studies have shown that current genetic diversity in bees precludes a domestication gene selection bottleneck indicating that they are not sufficiently selected to be considered "domesticated"creatures. So no downward spiral currently in sight. Few of our domesticated animals or crops can now survive in the wild. Cows and Corn to name but a few.
Do you wish to select for genes that allow survival of feral colonies?, or select for honey production/docility etc.

 

[Hivemaker.]

.
That happens, if you rear queens too early in spring.

That happens at any time if the weather is not suitable, and drones available.

 

[Finman]

That happens at any time if the weather is not suitable, and drones available.

Propability to get queens mated is better in summer then in spring and in autumn.

That is my experience after rearing queens 50 years.

I have not met a year, that queens stay unmated in July.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Really! I did not knew that after rearing queens 50 years!

It is good, at least you have found out something new, and now know it is not only in spring.

 

[Finman]

It is good, at least you have found out something new, and now know it is not only in spring.

Oh dear... Found new. Yes... My learning away is nowadays so effective.

What is only in spring?

I must go now to change Winter tyres.
My tyres have been on penalty time 10 days.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What is only in spring?

Depends on what kind of spring.

 

[user 6228]

Recent studies have shown that current genetic diversity in bees precludes a domestication gene selection bottleneck indicating that they are not sufficiently selected to be considered "domesticated"creatures. So no downward spiral currently in sight. Few of our domesticated animals or crops can now survive in the wild. Cows and Corn to name but a few.
Do you wish to select for genes that allow survival of feral colonies?, or select for honey production/docility etc.

To reinforce the above
Breeding for anything may lead to problems as the very mating characteristics of honeybees leads to genetic diversity within a single colony. This genetic diversity may be their very reason for colony survival in changing conditions as well as species survival. We need to remember this is a superoganism and the interaction of genetic traits may not be conventional and trying to draw parallels with cattle is essentially flawed. says Keith delaplane IRC

 

[Hivemaker.]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16194