Is Insulation the name of the Game?

[pargyle]

first you contradict, then your next statement contradicts that.

But now I realise it's just to wind up PArgyle

I'm not biting -- just dowsed the lounge and I'm chilling out on the sofa where the Leylines cross and watching a re-run on BBC 4 of New 1960's Pyschedelia ... Joe Cocker, Julie Driscoll, The Quo .... say what he likes ... I was there !! Well, I think I was ?

 

[Finman]

Finman

What do you mean by Rain Cover Sheet? Made of what material - fabric, steel, aluminum, fibreglass, etc.? Close fitted to the roof or loose? What is its purpose - to keep the insulation dry, reduce heat from evaporation, etc.?

Photo would be helpful

CVB

My hive has inner cover. It is wooden box which has 9 mm wooden board plate Over that there is 5-7 cm thick piece of recycled foam plastic matress.
Then a rain cover as we say, a wooden frame and zink steal or aluminium plate. And finally a stone which keep the cover on site during wind.

Inner cover structure respirates. Quite a lot moisture escapes through the inner cover in summer and in winter. No kingspan there.

 

[Finman]

Extracting all that honey is boring. I must return to normal UK beekeeping habits.

And selling honey... Good Lord ! I hate money but I love bees, so deeply. But I must buy gasoline.

 

[Madge]

My hive has inner cover. It is wooden box which has 9 mm wooden board plate Over that there is 5-7 cm thick piece of recycled foam plastic matress.
...
Inner cover structure respirates. Quite a lot moisture escapes through the inner cover in summer and in winter. No kingspan there.

Doesn't the foam become a soggy mess?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

unlike wool which soaks up loads of water but still stays miraculously dry?

 

[user 6228]

unlike wool which soaks up loads of water but still stays miraculously dry?

conductivity W/mK
PIR 0.02
EPS 0.03
sheeps wool 0.04
Cedar 0.10

 

[Finman]

Doesn't the foam become a soggy mess?

After a while they become dirty and get mold. Often mice piss on them. But just now I am splitting several used matresses in pieces with table saw. I have 30 new insulation pieces.

Wooden parts of inner cover I clean with propan flame. Nothing science is needed.

Winter is coming here. At the end of week we will have frost. Now we have 8C and nice to work outside.

Rest of pieces I glue with polyuratane PU-glue, and I get more suitable pieces.

Pieces are 7 cm thick. Really good material.

 

[Madge]

unlike wool which soaks up loads of water but still stays miraculously dry?

You didn't read the link I gave you, did you? Wool gets wet around the edges where it touches the walls - the core and bulk of it remains nice and dry, so it doesn't start to behave like a fridge (unlike soggy foam). That's in a hive situation, and my experience of it. If you leave it out in the rain it will get soggy.

 

[Madge]

conductivity W/mK
PIR 0.02
EPS 0.03
sheeps wool 0.04
Cedar 0.10

Sorry - that's gobbledygook to me. Please explain.

 

[Finman]

unlike wool which soaks up loads of water but still stays miraculously dry?

Heat lifts the moisture to the loft of beehive and moisture will be ventilated away from loft. It must be dry all the time. There must be a good air gap between insulation and rain cover, and holes via which air can move.

 

[user 6228]

Sorry - that's gobbledygook to me. Please explain.

these are the thermal conductivity values for the bulk material.

i.e. the amount of heat that would pass through a 1 metre cube of material with a temperature difference of 1 degree Celsius or Kelvin.
for the purposes of insulation lower is better.
You can then quantitively understand the differences between these materials

to get the conductance ( watts per degree C) of a sheet of material (L x h x t) with the heat passing thru the large sides (L x h)
multply the number above by sheet area ( L x h ) and divide by thickness (t)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry - that's gobbledygook to me. Please explain.

It's a measure of thermal conductivity.
The lower the conductivity, the more thermally efficient a material is.

So PIR comes out best, Cedar worst, in derek's list

 

[Madge]

conductivity W/mK
PIR 0.02
EPS 0.03
sheeps wool 0.04
Cedar 0.10

these are the thermal conductivity values for the bulk material.

i.e. the amount of heat that would pass through a 1 metre cube of material with a temperature difference of 1 degree Celsius or Kelvin.
for the purposes of insulation lower is better.
You can then quantitively understand the differences between these materials

to get the conductance ( watts per degree C) of a sheet of material (L x h x t) with the heat passing thru the large sides (L x h)
multply the number above by sheet area ( L x h ) and divide by thickness (t)

Thanks. So wool is pretty good according to those figures and has the advantage of not being rigid, so it can wrap around feeders and so on as well as being hygroscopic.

Do you know the thermal conductivity value of foam (as in a mattress)?

I'm not sure that I understand what 'h' stands for. Why 'h', and not 'w'?

 

[user 6228]

Thanks. So wool is pretty good according to those figures and has the advantage of not being rigid, so it can wrap around feeders and so on as well as being hygroscopic.

Do you know the thermal conductivity value of foam (as in a mattress)?

I'm not sure that I understand what 'h' stands for. Why 'h', and not 'w'?

the value for wool is from the insulation slab material, I wouldnt describe wool as hygroscopic. I think vapour permeable is a better description.


h= height interchaneable with w =width

 

[beebot]

first you contradict, then your next statement contradicts that.

But now I realise it's just to wind up PArgyle

Sorry but I cannot see a contraction. You need to explain please.

 

[beebot]

Yep ... works for me as well .... there's more to the bees than we humans can comprehend ...

Depends how you define works - random event you happen to get right or consistent accuracy and precision.

Any well educated person knows its rubbish.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sorry but I cannot see a contraction. You need to explain please.

so now the lickspittle joins in - what is this trolling weekend?

 

[pargyle]

Heat lifts the moisture to the loft of beehive and moisture will be ventilated away from loft. It must be dry all the time. There must be a good air gap between insulation and rain cover, and holes via which air can move.

Rubbish ... Seal the top of the hive to the Crown board, slab of kingspan on top and a solid roof over that. No fiurther ventilation whatsoever required with a mesh floor ...

What do you think the bees do at the top of the hive prior to winter ? Chew holes in the top of it so that they can be ventilated or seal everything they can up with propolis and brace comb across the top of the frames .. ??

 

[pargyle]

so now the lickspittle joins in - what is this trolling weekend?

Sorry ... I'm not sufficiently well educated to join in ....

 

[Cussword]

Sorry but I cannot see a contraction. You need to explain please.

Contraction? Is someone giving birth?

Please go away?