Is Insulation the name of the Game?

[Thymallus]

what losses?

Progress.
At least we agree there are winter losses.I think most winter losses are preventable, possibly many being attributable to operator error, although very difficult to prove.

But back to the original topic and the obvious question OO asked, are these losses (significant or insignificant) related to insulated vs non insulated hives.

 

[Eyeman]

In this 'no blame' forum do you really think members are going to be honest about their losses?

 

[Finman]

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You out there never speak about spring build up. It is much more important than loose couple on colonies.

You may compensate winter losses easily with spare hives, but how do you compensate slow build up?
.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Progress.
At least we agree there are winter losses.I think most winter losses are preventable, possibly many being attributable to operator error, although very difficult to prove.

Exactly - and here we get down to what is a winter loss? bees survive the whole winter then in the spring dwindle and die because, say a DLQ, is that a winter loss? or at least is it attributable to a bit of a draught or the absence of a teacosy or just she ran out of juice or was poorly mated the previous year?

Progress.
But back to the original topic and the obvious question OO asked, are these losses (significant or insignificant) related to insulated vs non insulated hives.

Precisely - is there any meaningful data on this?

 

[Finman]

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When you are all experienced beekeepers, and you have kept boath insulated hives and noninsulated, you know that it is easy to see what they are and what they do to bees..
Why you need data to simple question?

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[Thymallus]

Exactly - and here we get down to what is a winter loss? bees survive the whole winter then in the spring dwindle and die because, say a DLQ, is that a winter loss? or at least is it attributable to a bit of a draught or the absence of a teacosy or just she ran out of juice or was poorly mated the previous year?

I would suggest that hive in spring full of dead bees constitutes a definite winter loss. Regardless of what they succumbed to.

Precisely - is there any meaningful data on this?
We would need to define when Winter ended? That year of the cold March?April there were many hives lost during that period that came through the winter okay. Are those winter or spring losses?

 

[Thymallus]

.
When you are all experienced beekeepers, and you have kept boath insulated hives and noninsulated, you know that it is easy to see what they are and what they do to bees..
Why you need data to simple question?

.

Not lost a colony in our mild winters in a poly hive (yet), nor a nucleus in a poly nuc. But I don't keep vast numbers of hives for that data to be particularly meaningful.
Perhaps the question we should be asking has anyone lost hives in the winter in poly hives and if they did was the floor in or out? And yes it gets more complicated by colony size, available stores etc.

 

[Finman]

I would suggest that hive in spring full of dead bees constitutes a definite winter loss. Regardless of what they succumbed to.

Precisely - is there any meaningful data on this?
We would need to define when Winter ended? That year of the cold March?April there were many hives lost during that period that came through the winter okay. Are those winter or spring losses?

Winter losses are not only dead bees or hives.

In my apiary most common losses are reduced colony size, and the reason is often nosema or varroa. Colony size means speed of build up and when colony is ready to forage surplus.

Second type of losses are queens and queens' reduced ability to lay.

Direct starving is very rare.

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[For want of a better word]

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You out there never speak about spring build up. It is much more important than loose couple on colonies.

You may compensate winter losses easily with spare hives, but how do you compensate slow build up?
.

I do it by keeping bees adapted to our local environmental conditions... and not attempting to keep bees better suited to the Algarve!

Mytten da

 

[Finman]

I do it by keeping bees adapted to our local environmental conditions... and not attempting to keep bees better suited to the Algarve!

Mytten da

I keep bees to produce honey.
IT is very different compared to just keep bees alive.

Suited local environment is to buy proper queens. Nothing more. That is not enough to winter bees.

Local seems to be one of those stupid slogans and nothing to do with insulation.

..

 

[drex]

Each to his own. Why buy? I can raise enough good queens from my own stock for my needs. All my colonies have gone into winter with this years queens, all proven layers. For the few queens most of us need it is not difficult. You cannot get more "local" than that.

I tell a lie. One colony is vile tempered, and spilling over with bees still (double brood). I shall requeen that in spring, when there are fewer bees, from one of the nucs I am overwintering.

 

[Tremyfro]

Great debate....so are we all agreed that more insulation and fewer draughts are the aim of beekeeping?

 

[Cussword]

Great debate....so are we all agreed that more insulation and fewer draughts are the aim of beekeeping?

I'll go along with that.

 

[oliver90owner]

so are we all agreed that more insulation and fewer draughts are the aim of beekeeping?

No, of course not! There will always be some that would disagree.

Gaping holes in the crownboard, matchsticks to raise the crownboard, no insulation needed, etc.

There should be agreement with what you posted, but I bet there are a lot of a certain association that would not agree. Some on here, too.

RAB

 

[Tremyfro]

Well...for sure there will be many beekeepers who like their own ways.
For me....lots of insulation, no OMF during the winter, lots of stores....timely intervention for disease and pests. If I can get that right..then hopefully my bees will survive into next year. It's not so much what to do to increase the chances of survival but more what NOT to do to decrease their chances!
Many fingers crossed for a better year of forage for the bees.

 

[irishguy]

I wouldn't be classed as the brightest spark in the fire but I'm not that daft to think putting a bonnet of insulation isn't going to help them bees.

Think about it for a sec ffs, bee hives lose heat from hive, bees need to work harder to survive, put insulation over hive, bees use less energy which in turn can help them for surviving over winter!

One example I can give, and this is for all those thickos that think more insulation isn't useful, call to anyone who has an insulation bonnet over hive, take it off and put your hand on the inside of the bonnet then go touch side of your own wooden hive and see what you notice.

For all the price of a sheet of 4 inch insulation, why not just give it a go. At a guess, you'd easy get 4 bonnets from an 8x4 sheet of the stuff. Sure what's 40-50euro(30ish£sss) these days for a chance to help your bees more. I'm sure most of you have pissed more up against a wall on a sat day down the boozer or even wasted it blowing hoops from them cancer sticks yas suck on daily!

 

[irishguy]

no OMF during the winter, bees.

I was thinking maybe to do this but I'm near sure I read somewhere that its best to leave the OMF under hive over winter thou its one thing I will read up on when i get more free time. If anyone has any info concerning this, would be greatly appreciated to link it here.

 

[Finman]

.
In Finland I can buy poly langstroth box with £13.
Then I make from recycled material bottom board and inner cover and rain cover. DIY furnitures cost domething but not much. Rain cover sheet is £4.

That is all I need to insulation for next 10 years.

A net against wood pecker is a good apparatus.

And what I need more is table saw, with £100. You may do with it frames and many other things.
In UK frames into box cost more that the box itself. That is robbering.
.

 

[Finman]

I was thinking maybe to do this but I'm near sure I read somewhere that its best to leave the OMF under hive over winter thou its one thing I will read up on when i get more free time. If anyone has any info concerning this, would be greatly appreciated to link it here.

I have had solid floors in hives 50 years. 6 mesh floors I used one winter.

But boath floors are equally good, solid and mesh. They need little bit brains, how to use them.

 

[Tremyfro]

I understand that when trying to do the best thing you may come up against well tried practises. Sometimes, although the well tried practises works...you have to question its efficiency. In this case.....OMF during winter. I really find it hard to believe that having a wide open area at the bottom of the hive is going to be beneficial to the bees. Some people say it acts as a baffle with the wind....hmmmm. Sometimes I wonder if these same people spend much time outdoors at night during the winter. The loss of heat due to wind chill would be substantial. It doesn't mean that the bees won't survive....but they will lose heat and use up stores to maintain cluster warmth. It means the spring build up will be slower. I understand about the varroa thing.....but in the winter I hope my bees will only have a very low varroa load...so perhaps the OMF is mainly needed in the summer. Or perhaps it's only needed for monitoring varroa drop after treatment. Any moisture will still be able to escape through the bottom if it needs to...
So I am going to enclose my hives...only the entrance...a protected entrance will be open.