Polycarbonate quilt options

[Grif]

I am deliberating on purchasing a few polycarbonate quilts. I am wondering what people's experience was of the different versions (with and without hole for porter bee escape). I do not use bee escapes, but wondered if their might be excessive moisture build up within the hive if there were not holes in the quilt?

 

[pargyle]

I am deliberating on purchasing a few polycarbonate quilts. I am wondering what people's experience was of the different versions (with and without hole for porter bee escape). I do not use bee escapes, but wondered if their might be excessive moisture build up within the hive if there were not holes in the quilt?

No problems whatsoever. I make my own out of 6mm clear polycarbonate. I drill a hole in the middle with a tank cutter then glue the bit that comes out onto a square of PC that then goes back over the hole and only comes off when a feeder goes on. The bees tend to seal it up with propolis so they. clearly, don't like any ventilation at the top of the hive.

Lovely to be able to look inside without disturbing them .. particularly reassuring in winter occasionally.

I put an eke or a super with at least 50mm of Kingspan in it on top of the crownboard - never seen any serious condensation on the CB.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/125609724@N03/sets/72157645828929586

This one didn't have the feeder hole - has been subsequently drilled.

 

[Curley]

I made my own as well - I didn't include a feeder hole and didn't use such thick PC but did have a 6 mm rim on one side and 50mm on the other. In normal use this has a block of fairly tight fitting celotex in it for insulation and but it can also be inverted over a block of fondant when winter feeding.

At the risk of hijacking Grif's thread (sorry Grif) - Phil - nice photos; I like the look of the celotex division boards(? is that the right term?) - I was thinking of making some of those up prior to moving a nuc to a full hive. The width I can work out but how deep did you make them? All the way down to the mesh floor ?.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I make my own out of 6mm clear polycarbonate. I drill a hole in the middle
I put an eke or a super with at least 50mm of Kingspan in it on top of the crownboard - never seen any serious condensation on the CB.

Same here.

Insulation will prevent condensation.

 

[itma]

There are no problems of "moisture build up" (with no hole) as long as you have an open mesh floor on your hive.
If you have a wooden hive, insulating between coverboard and roof with a slab of Celotex/Kingspan/Recticel/etc will help by keeping the colony warmer. It also prevents the coverboard from being the coldest point of the hive - and any condensation forms on the coldest point -- which you don't want to be above the bees.
Extra insulation is rarely needed with poly hives - which incidentally are regularly supplied with no-hole covers.



I thought a hole might be useful for feeding, etc.
But I discovered that the weight of a rapid feeder caused plastic to flex into the beespace, inviting comb-drawing and propolisation.

So now I use no-hole see-through coverboards for most of the year.
And (homemade) ply boards with holes for feeding and clearing.

I have recently made a few see-through coverboards from 4mm twinwall polycarbonate (think plastic conservatory roof glazing) with "10mm" stripwood frames. (Yes I seal the open ends of the twinwall - I've used aluminium sticky tape, as for greenhouses.)
These are cheap and simple, but the bees are happy with them (almost zero wax or prop) and afford useful, if not crystal clear, visibility of what they are getting up to in there.

 

[drstitson]

"wondered if their might be excessive moisture build up within the hive if there were not holes in the quilt?"

you can still use match sticks even with new fangled polycarbonate CBs.

solid crown board with insulation above.

NO NO NO hole.

holes are only fit for dedicated CLEARER boards not crown boards.

 

[wessexmario]

I am deliberating on purchasing a few polycarbonate quilts. I am wondering what people's experience was of the different versions (with and without hole for porter bee escape). I do not use bee escapes, but wondered if their might be excessive moisture build up within the hive if there were not holes in the quilt?

Think about it...

Would you install double glazing, and then leave the windows open permanently?

 

[dn170221]

Nice board Pargyle, what did you use for the rim for the bee space, and how did you attach it?

 

[3bees]

I make my own out of 6mm clear polycarbonate........

Where do you source the polycarbonate?

I've looked in several places and it seems cheaper to by the clear "crownboards" from Paynes. I know they are a lot thinner than your 6mm, but, as you say, its great to be able to remove the roof and look inside the hive without disturbing the bees.

BTW, I have no problems with condensation.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I am deliberating on purchasing a few polycarbonate quilts. I am wondering what people's experience was of the different versions (with and without hole for porter bee escape). I do not use bee escapes, but wondered if their might be excessive moisture build up within the hive if there were not holes in the quilt?

I have all my poly quilts, without holes, and then over this winter, decided to drill holes in, (when the bees were in residence) to place 2.5kg of fondant directly over the bees, rather than remove the board, and replace.

I now use a small piece of correx, taped over the hole, until this winter feed is required.

Three of my colonies did not need or eat any fondant, only one started to tuck into it.... and I put this on, as a insurance measure, because I was out of the country, for 5 weeks Feb-March!

and I have 50-100mm of kingspan on top, all year in the roof, flat right on the poly.

 

[bpmurray]

I make my own out of 6mm clear polycarbonate.

I considered that, but buying the finished article is cheaper than buying the polycarbonate sheet, even though the supplier will cut it to size for free.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Think about it...

Would you install double glazing, and then leave the windows open permanently?

Yes, especially the large bedroom window, that stays open permanently.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I made my own as well - I didn't include a feeder hole and didn't use such thick PC but did have a 6 mm rim on one side and 50mm on the other. In normal use this has a block of fairly tight fitting celotex in it for insulation and but it can also be inverted over a block of fondant when winter feeding.

At the risk of hijacking Grif's thread (sorry Grif) - Phil - nice photos; I like the look of the celotex division boards(? is that the right term?) - I was thinking of making some of those up prior to moving a nuc to a full hive. The width I can work out but how deep did you make them? All the way down to the mesh floor ?.

I've wrapped kingspan/celotex with foil tape (stop the bees eating it!), and I've made them was deep as the box, touching the floor! Managed to get two small nucs on 6 frames through the winter!

 

[einsteinagogo]

I considered that, but buying the finished article is cheaper than buying the polycarbonate sheet, even though the supplier will cut it to size for free.

I've always got mine here...

as this seller...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/arasaris1..._DefaultDomain_3&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

 

[irishguy]

I have 4 polycarb crown boards, great for looking in but i made the mistake of looking in when they where on a super, seen all but 1 frame capped and thought brilliant, time to add a super quickly without disturbing them. Added super but only realised week or 2 after that the frames in super werent fully capped, only the tops whee capped. So of came teh 2nd super!

 

[pargyle]

Nice board Pargyle, what did you use for the rim for the bee space, and how did you attach it?

I use the same 6mm polycarbonate - I cut a strip about 10mm wide and glue it to the edge of the main sheet of PC with CA Glue (Cyanocryalate) Superglue. I buy the medium industrial grade from either Tool Station or Screwfix .. costs less than £2 for a bottle that lasts for ages.

At the risk of hijacking Grif's thread (sorry Grif) - Phil - nice photos; I like the look of the celotex division boards(? is that the right term?) - I was thinking of making some of those up prior to moving a nuc to a full hive. The width I can work out but how deep did you make them? All the way down to the mesh floor ?.

Both .. I have some that go all the way down to the mesh floor and some that stop a bee space above it .. doesn't seem to make a lot of difference during the season but when I am wintering down I would only use the full depth one and fill the space outside of the 'divider' with more Kingspan. It's important to seal the edges with Alumumium foil tape (again Screwfix and dirt cheap) or they will mine into the foam. Don't whatever you do, use duct tape as the bees eat it and then get entangled in the embedded threads of glass fibre .. and die a horrible death trying to get free.

 

[pargyle]

Where do you source the polycarbonate?

I've looked in several places and it seems cheaper to by the clear "crownboards" from Paynes.

I have been lucky .. Originally, I picked a load of offcuts up from ebay reasonably cheap, then I was round at a friends house when he was having his old victorian windows replaced .. he had previously had secondary double glazing made out of 6mm polycarbonate .. sadly, most of it was in a skip under a pile of rubble but I picked up a biggish sheet that had been installed in the centre of his bay window. Then I found a local firm that make and install all sorts of conservatories and the like and they gave me some offcuts but their season appears to be mainly summer and they haven't had much lately so I've run out.

I've never bought it at full price as it's too expensive ... I think 4mm would be OK but even that's a bit on the pricey side.

So ... the answer is to keep your eye's open .. Polycarb is used for some greenhouses and you occasionally see them up for grabs on free cycle - enough PC in one of those to keep you in See through CB's for the rest of the decade ! You might have to dismantle it and get rid of the frame but ...

There's always possibilities .. ask around.

 

[itma]

...
I've looked in several places and it seems cheaper to by the clear "crownboards" from Paynes. I know they are a lot thinner than your 6mm, but, as you say, its great to be able to remove the roof and look inside the hive without disturbing the bees.
...

The see-through flimsies that Paynes do for their poly National hive range are a poor choice.

They rest on the frame topbars, and like 'sheet' QXs resting on frame topbars, they get propolised to the frames, which, if nothing else makes them a royal pain to replace accurately and without crushing bees.

The Paynes flimsies are too floppy to maintain a beespace if put over a small shim rim. (And being 500mm square are too big to fit under a wooden National roof, so would need cutting down for use on wooden hives.)
Hence my preferred use for them is to subdivide stacks of boxes of drawn comb. Any wax moths that might get in, only have a small part of the stack to ruin ...


Just as a framed rigid (wire) QX makes sense, so does a framed rigid (see through) coverboard.

 

[pargyle]

The see-through flimsies that Paynes do for their poly National hive range are a poor choice.

They rest on the frame topbars, and like 'sheet' QXs resting on frame topbars, they get propolised to the frames, which, if nothing else makes them a royal pain to replace accurately and without crushing bees.

The Paynes flimsies are too floppy to maintain a beespace if put over a small shim rim.

Hence my preferred use for them is to subdivide stacks of boxes of drawn comb. Any wax moths that might get in, only have a small part of the stack to ruin ...

Just as a framed rigid (wire) QX makes sense, so does a framed rigid (see through) coverboard.

YES ... Spot on .. I tried making frames for the paynes sheets they send out with their hives .. total waste of effort, they sag in the middle. You also are right about laying it on top of the frames with no bee space - I tried that as well - never seen them make so much propolis !! Was a real pain to unstick it prising it off with the hive tool an inch at a time .. and it happened in days ! Never again ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

only realised week or 2 after that the frames in super werent fully capped, only the tops whee capped. So of came teh 2nd super!

You shouldn't be waiting for them to cap the comb before adding the next super - way too late (unless you want them to swarm)