Pollen discrimination

[Jimy Dee]

I understand it is accepted that bees work towards getting nectar from flowers that have higher sugar content, but do they discriminate when it comes to pollen from different sources? If they do discriminate for/against certain pollen types, what are they looking for in the preferred pollen?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Protein.

Pollen Collection by Honey Bees

It has been observed that honey bee workers choose pollen based on the odor and physical configuration of the pollen grains rather than based on nutritive value.

Protein is composed of amino acids, 10 of which have been identified as essential to honey bees. These include threonine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, leucine, phenylalanine, histidine, lysine, arginine, and tryptophan. The quantity and type of amino acids present in pollen varies by the floral source from which the pollen was collected.

From the link below, which is an interesting paper.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/in868

 

[pargyle]

........ If they do discriminate for/against certain pollen types, what are they looking for in the preferred pollen?

Same as they look for in a nectar source - quality of forage within a flying distance that gives them a return on expended energy I reckon.

But pollen protein is composed of amino acids, 10 of which have been identified as essential to honey bees. These include threonine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, leucine, phenylalanine, histidine, lysine, arginine, and tryptophan. The quantity and type of amino acids present in pollen varies depending on the flower from which the pollen was collected, so you would think that they would select the available flowers with the pollen that best suits the colony's requirements. However, it has been observed that worker bees choose pollen based on the odour and physical configuration of the pollen grains rather than the nutritional value.

So the answer to your question is ... we don't know !!

 

[MikeT]

This was included in the Mann Lake Newsletter of today.

"Although there is some pollen around at this time of year, a significant amount is coming from willow which doesn’t provide a balanced diet for the bees. Just like us, they need a variation in their food supplies"

 

[Finman]

From natue during firstd

This was included in the Mann Lake Newsletter of today.

"Although there is some pollen around at this time of year, a significant amount is coming from willow which doesn’t provide a balanced diet for the bees. Just like us, they need a variation in their food supplies"

Man Lake writes its own opinions. In Finland bees get only willow pollen during first two weeks in May. There is no sign of unbalance. Protein content in willow pollen is about 15% but bees eate it more than 25% protein.

Bees need, but if they do not have.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not read this' letter' but I have a sneaky suspicion that it is simply drawing attention to their most superior superb, well balanced, absolutely required, nothing better on the market or in nature, etc, etc, pollen substitute. No doubt the only 'must have' item for every beekeeper that is not clever enough to see through the ruse, the hype advertising, etc, etc, of a product that is not generally required in most instances.

Or it might be for more carbohydrate feed with added protein. Again, something that sensible beekeepers avoid, because it is not needed, and feed carbohydrate only if and when needed.

Am I too cynical, or am I correct? Anyone comment?

 

[masterBK]

I agree with O9O. Look for independent data and be wary of believing information from someone trying to sell you something. If there is a source of natural pollen available most bees will not touch pollen substitutes with a barge pole no matter what it says on the label. There are some pollens like OSR that seem to have all the necessary amino acids present in more or less the right proportion but even then your bees will bring in a variety of other pollens as well.

 

[Ely]

Not read this' letter' but I have a sneaky suspicion that it is simply drawing attention to their most superior superb, well balanced, absolutely required, nothing better on the market or in nature, etc, etc, pollen substitute. No doubt the only 'must have' item for every beekeeper that is not clever enough to see through the ruse, the hype advertising, etc, etc, of a product that is not generally required in most instances.

Or it might be for more carbohydrate feed with added protein. Again, something that sensible beekeepers avoid, because it is not needed, and feed carbohydrate only if and when needed.

Am I too cynical, or am I correct? Anyone comment?

Sounds about right to me.

 

[MikeT]

Not read this' letter' but I have a sneaky suspicion that it is simply drawing attention to their most superior superb, well balanced, absolutely required, nothing better on the market or in nature, etc, etc, pollen substitute. No doubt the only 'must have' item for every beekeeper that is not clever enough to see through the ruse, the hype advertising, etc, etc, of a product that is not generally required in most instances.

Or it might be for more carbohydrate feed with added protein. Again, something that sensible beekeepers avoid, because it is not needed, and feed carbohydrate only if and when needed.

Am I too cynical, or am I correct? Anyone comment?

No you are not RAB.

I left out the link to their pollen substitute. My bees are bringing masses of yellow pollen from the willow, some very dark orange and almost white, so they are getting a mixture (not quite 5 aday)

 

[Finman]

No you are not RAB.

I left out the link to their pollen substitute. My bees are bringing masses of yellow pollen from the willow, some very dark orange and almost white, so they are getting a mixture (not quite 5 aday)

But you should understand, that in our nature we have no mixture blooming between 1.5-15.5 . It is only willow. And bees have no out of balance symptons.

Like Neopol has only 3% natural pollen. The rest is sugar, 6€/kg. In Germany same stuff is 4€/kg.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Am I too cynical, or am I correct? Anyone comment?

No, not too cynical at all.

Bees and plants evolved alongside each other. Bees use abundant hazel (catkins) and willow pollen for spring brood rearing, it's used along with anything left over from last season and anything they may have picked up from other flowering plants many of which are non-native (snowdrops etc).

Britain isn't exactly a pollen desert, with only one pollen source at any given time of year. It's nothing like the almond 'orchards' of US which are truly a single pollen and nectar source.

 

[dpearce4]

As you can see from the picture of the pollen I collected from 6 hives 3 on each of my 2 sites there is a vast amount of different pollens coming in. so pollen patties are definitely needed this time of year unless very cold or very wet.

 

[bontbee]

As you can see from the picture of the pollen I collected from 6 hives 3 on each of my 2 sites there is a vast amount of different pollens coming in. so pollen patties are definitely needed this time of year unless very cold or very wet.

was there a "not" missing there

 

[MikeT]

But you should understand, that in our nature we have no mixture blooming between 1.5-15.5 . It is only willow. And bees have no out of balance symptons.

Like Neopol has only 3% natural pollen. The rest is sugar, 6€/kg. In Germany same stuff is 4€/kg.

Finman I worked in Vologda Russia some 1000km due east of Helsinki. I am sure there were more flowers out during early May which are a pollen source. I arrived on 1st May and can remember seeing coltsfoot (Tussilago farfara) in flower on the railway embankments and in some of the grass fields. What was also memorable was how fast the trees came into leaf and how quickly the flowers emerged. There was Betula and Alnus flowering as well as various spp of willow and I also saw Acer platanoides, not sure if bees use this one.

Mike

 

[Finman]

There are more flowers, but not enough to feed 10 hives. Tussilago are few. Modern agriculture and herbisides killed tussilago from fields. We have lots of tussilago on verges of motorways. But motorways are few.
Alnus blooms at the first half of April, and temps are so bad that bees forage days or two on them.
Bees do not use Betula pollen, unless in emergency.

Acer starts blooming after 15.5.

And we have bad weeks too during willow flowering. But diffferent willow species bloom about 4 weeks, it whole May.

.

 

[oliver90owner]

Finman, you are so lucky to have such a predictable climate and weather (not the same). Unfortunately beekeeping by dates is totally useless in the UK most years, even though we often see dates to do this and dates to do that quoted by the non-thinking beeks.

Flows are generally only predictable to about plus or minus 3 weeks. Pollen is usually abundant given good flying weather. Water is no problem unless the bees are confined to quarters for days on end.

Obviously rather different to your limited beekeeping season where everything is predictably condensed into a short concentrated season. Like no time for there to be 'June gaps' like in the UK, or rather periods when the bees consume more than they collect - one simple reason for the less than predictable crop from your bees. But remember, also, very few take off the amount of sugar, fed to their bees, from the annual honey crop.

All make subtle differences, dependent on how the bees are managed in different regions.

 

[Finman]

.
Predictable in my beekeeping. I would say

- 1/3 skills
- 1/3 weather
- 1/3 luck, bad or good
- plus varroa own factor (laziness)

 

[dpearce4]

was there a "not" missing there

lol you spotted the deliberate mistake then lol

 

[midnight sun]

Not read this' letter' but I have a sneaky suspicion that it is simply drawing attention to their most superior superb, well balanced, absolutely required, nothing better on the market or in nature, etc, etc, pollen substitute. No doubt the only 'must have' item for every beekeeper that is not clever enough to see through the ruse, the hype advertising, etc, etc, of a product that is not generally required in most instances.

Or it might be for more carbohydrate feed with added protein. Again, something that sensible beekeepers avoid, because it is not needed, and feed carbohydrate only if and when needed.

Am I too cynical, or am I correct? Anyone comment?

Cynical, but wise me thinks. ( and probably spot on.) The chances are that they have pollen stores from Autumn last year in any case. I thought that is why they brought as much as they can in during that period)