Poaching sites

[dpearce4]

EB.

can i ask is it your apiary site that someone is looking to take over to turn into the training site?

if so i would be as annoyed as you prob are. I would go to the BKA chair and make a formal complaint about them trying to take the site over. Advise them that you will bring it up at the next meeting if they didnt stop maybe.

 

[johnandyrob]

There is no moral dilemma its is simply morally wrong to "poach" a site. To approach all concerned and come to an arrangement or not and respect the out come of that is morally the only way to go about this.

 

[steve's bees]

Out of interest, what is members opinion of poaching sites? If you know someone has hives within a small nature reserve is it good/bad form to approach the reserve with a view to setting up a branch training apiary within the reserve? Thoughts and/or advice appreciated.
Eb

why would you even think about doing something as unethical as this, judgingby your info you an established bee keeper having joined this site in 2010 and have 3 colonies which are obviously in an apiary somewhere.

Why don't you put the in your own apiary?

Steve

 

[BBG]

Goes like this:

Grants

LA forms a Charity - applies for grants - arrives in 000s - where to go from here - lovely place that old Muggins has got down at the nature reserve - chat to old golf club member on all committees - oh and local councillor who's heard about bees and would like his name in lights as supporting a worthwhile project to "help these creatures and save the environment (what ever that is)"

Lots of lovely money

Lots of fencing

Lots of hive stands

Lots of buying power

Lots of new hives (sell the rubbish off to the newbies) cheaply - of course

Lots of bees to flog off at prime prices

Lots of newbies clamouring to learn the 'way of the bee'.

Lots of course fees rolling in

Lots of dosh from selling nucs to newbies

Open a shop to supply the gear - bugger the supplier who's done it for years and been faithful to his customers.

Lots of dosh coming in from foundation, supers, more brood boxes and floors - all the stuff newbies don't get told they will need.

Bugger protocol - the beekeeper who's had a quiet, established place for his beehives for years can join us (or KOAs)

Oh and let's apply for more grants for something or other next year. (You do know old so and so don't you........

Oh and let's knock on the doors of some businesses and convince them their name will have the moral high ground as they help us save the planet (by giving us money) and we'll get our names in the paper - Oh and theirs of course. Firm XX is helping save the planet - lunch all round.

Is it immoral?

Produces lots of dosh

Produces lots of work (small time)

Produces lots of purchases in timber, hives, fencing, accoutrements - cuts out the suppliers (local guys who have eked a living for years).

Produces lots more bees

Produces fees for the LA and its members, sorry Charity

Produces more beekeepers year on year ( we'll have them back if you decide you don't want them

Who gets hurt:

You and me - just small timers who have established a quiet niche free from disease we hope.

The hives we have are what that patch of land can support - we know - we researched it - established it - coached and cuddled it along.

Why?

Because other beekeepers can see a nice little earner all round. Free money, donated hives, donated land (peppercorn £1 p.a.)

Are they the young vibrant stock we need in beekeeping?

"Old age and Treachery will Always beat Youth and Enthusiasm"

Keep us posted we like to know when one of us dies a little.

 

[For want of a better word]

My Gran used to say.. best thing poached is an egg !

 

[Into the lions den]

Been the victim of site poaching and assorted 'muscling in' tactics many times.

Been accused of being the poacher, even though the idea of the 6 hive beekeeper having exclusivity on a farm with 900 acres of OSR is pretty damaging to the farmer who asked us in, and if the guy had agreed to scale up he would have been on his own on the land forever.

Bottom line. Unless we have bought them, the sites are not ours to be territorial about. We are there due to the grace of the landowner and the relationship we form with them over the years. They can change who their beekeeper is at their own whim. Its their land and they can have who they want on it.

Bad bad form to poach, but in the end its not really our doing if the landowner/operator wants a change. When I lose out (and some of the circumstances have been very distasteful) I feel very unsettled and disgruntled, but there are plenty more places for the asking, and any of us can find a new site if we try.............it might even be better than the one you were dislodged from.

 

[BBG]

In Wales, it's poached salmon.

---

Ref the muscling in - had same when I fished commercially for crabs and lobsters. In the mid-80s turned to buying and selling almost completely and soon found that where I had put down 3 strings, or 90 pots there were now 3 or 4 hundred pulling every crab and lobster to be had - happy days for me as buyer - but fishermen slowly hung themselves through over-fishing.

Now there's a thought ....

 

[Easy Beesy]

Little more background - I have a couple of hives on a 5 acre site owned by Government - I got wind of the fact that the local BKA have decided that this little area would be a convenient place to site the branch training apiary. I expressed concern that there wouldn't be enough forage for a dozen more hives, but the Chairman is of the opinion that this is the only area they can find and they will be going to the owners to discuss putting the branch apiary there.
Eb

 

[grahambee]

So its your site getting Poached

 

[Poly Hive]

I would express forcefully to the Chair that they get off their lazy behinds and do some serious looking. As ITLD says there are plenty of sites for them what get after it.

I would also point out that the AGM is going to be very uncomfortable for them to boot.
PH

 

[mattsbees]

Snap, it seems they like to poach sites all around the country then!

It's not forage that worries me- it's disease!

 

[Easy Beesy]

One of my concerns is that in a training apiary the novices will be more likely to cause defensive behaviour in the bees and with it being relatively close to joe public......

 

[AnotherNewBee]

One of my concerns is that in a training apiary the novices will be more likely to cause defensive behaviour in the bees and with it being relatively close to joe public......

Perhaps a persuasive argument for whoever controls the land (is responsible for what happens on it) to stick with his current solitary beek.

 

[BBG]

Little more background - I have a couple of hives on a 5 acre site owned by Government - I got wind of the fact that the local BKA have decided that this little area would be a convenient place to site the branch training apiary. I expressed concern that there wouldn't be enough forage for a dozen more hives, but the Chairman is of the opinion that this is the only area they can find and they will be going to the owners to discuss putting the branch apiary there.
Eb

Perhaps get hold of your Government contact and explain the overcrowding, disease etc problems and ask for exclusivity as bees die from all sorts and the less exposure to other's diseases the better for the environment.

Also Polyhive suggestion is good but LA will likely pretend you don't exist and deal with Government rep....

BOL

 

[jezd]

BBG your post at #24 was bang on the point, its often all about money and funding/grants. Associations and charities (who are no innocents) are grant magnets and see the end goal (turnover in the case of charities) as over riding any third parties in thier way - its a shame but my eyes are now open to the national scandal that is the grant funded sector.

ITLD has a point, if your site is poached then best see it as a chance to improve things.

Still grates

 

[BeeNice]

Some charities are fine, but, some sell in direct competition to shops that don't have the luxury of reduced rent, free labour etc by selling mostly new stuff. I didn't realize how much this grant/funding impacted on the local guy just trying to make a living or having a simple hobby that helps the environment. I also agree with BBG. Hasn't happen to me yet but if you retain a good relationship with the landowner hopefully you can avoid it happening to you, but if it's the big publicity seeking agencies, then you don't have a hope in hell if you happen to be in there way. We need to spread the word about the plight of the bee, but not at the expense of the home grown local guy.

 

[colin]

poaching sites

Hi,many years ago we used to pollenate for a well known local seed producer
then we had twenty hives dumped next to ours with no id on them .We then had a bee farmer put eighty hives within a quarter of a mile of our apiary then it became harder for the beees to get surplus honey we had thirty hives on this site which did produce honey until this happened.

 

[victor meldrew]

A guy has got himself a site within 150 metres of my bees and he has Carnies but it is a free county ???
I have had a Radio amateur move in next door to me (The last thing any Ham wants) but it is a free country ???
Like or lump it , seniority counts for nowt in these cases
VM

 

[BBG]

BBG your post at #24 was bang on the point, its often all about money and funding/grants. Associations and charities (who are no innocents) are grant magnets and see the end goal (turnover in the case of charities) as over riding any third parties in thier way - its a shame but my eyes are now open to the national scandal that is the grant funded sector.

ITLD has a point, if your site is poached then best see it as a chance to improve things.

Still grates

Yes, I think ITLD is right, we should always have our eye open for more undisturbed sites and NEVER tell anybody where the hives are. If you do, people gossip about it and it may reach the wrong ears or they become dissatisfied with their own site.

Odd though as some have asked 4 or 5 times before OH has used the phrase of one forumite:

"If I told you, I'd have to kill you".

She causes some at Rotary to blanche a little when she says that to them. It does stop inquisitive gossipers in their tracks though.

She smiles when she says it but I'm never sure whether she actually means it or not.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Been the victim of site poaching and assorted 'muscling in' tactics many times.

Been accused of being the poacher, even though the idea of the 6 hive beekeeper having exclusivity on a farm with 900 acres of OSR is pretty damaging to the farmer who asked us in, and if the guy had agreed to scale up he would have been on his own on the land forever.

Bottom line. Unless we have bought them, the sites are not ours to be territorial about. We are there due to the grace of the landowner and the relationship we form with them over the years. They can change who their beekeeper is at their own whim. Its their land and they can have who they want on it.

Bad bad form to poach, but in the end its not really our doing if the landowner/operator wants a change. When I lose out (and some of the circumstances have been very distasteful) I feel very unsettled and disgruntled, but there are plenty more places for the asking, and any of us can find a new site if we try.............it might even be better than the one you were dislodged from.