Poaching sites

[johncorne]

Bingo well said, the title says it all.

{snipped}

PPS some associations now have best practice guidelines within their constitutions along the lines of NOT setting up new apiaries within x miles of other member sites, I think Doncaster has this rule but not sure how widespread this is.

This could be difficult! There are 4 other beeks that I know of within a 1 mile radius of my house, all with bees in their garden or adjacent land.

Jc

 

[Into the lions den]

This could be difficult! There are 4 other beeks that I know of within a 1 mile radius of my house, all with bees in their garden or adjacent land.

Jc

Quite so. Its actually impossible to have that sort of separation, unless you are going to extend England south as far as somewhere like Lisbon (or, if I felt like doing the sums, maybe even Dakar).

That scale of separation can only be an aspiration rather than a thing that can be practically delivered.

The main worry seems to be disease spread. On another thread (or maybe it was earlier in this one) available forage was mentioned and dismissed in favour of disease worries. WELL the shortage of forage leads to stress which increases disease vulnerability. Plenty forage and it is remarkable how many colonies to the square mile you can have with no issues arising.

BIG disease is actually quite rare and it is fairly wise to keep concerns over it in proportion. Be aware, be able to recognise it. Do not foolishly overload areas. Do not stick your bees just over the fence from someone elses. Like so many other things its all common sense.

Our outbreak in Scotland has been laid at the door of lack of bee inspectors. Not so. Only the late diagnosis can be in any way laid at the door of the authorities. The core area of the EFB was seriously overpopulated, too many bees in too many apiaries in too confined an area. 25 years before all was fine as it was the heartland of the raspberry industry and the bees prospered. Plenty forage, good nutrition, good morale, good health. Then the raspberry industry collapsed and is virtually extinct yet the historic patttern of large bee oufits it spawned remains.

Going back to the start of this thread...........another apiary on the same 5 acre plot, preferrably at the extreme point of it, MIGHT not be a big issue except in the mind of the beekeeper losing his exclusivity, depending on available forage. However it IS Lancashire, which is not generally considered a prime beekeeping county and the OP could have a very valid concern. A careful assessment of the forage withing 2 miles of his site, and the proposed one, would tell a lot about whether it is a situation where they could be compatible with eachother.

In the end its the owners land. OK its a reserve but there will be someone who makes the decisions about who has their bees there. It is generally counter productive to be awkward or stroppy in any way with these people as you are likely to find yourself out on you ear. A 'friendly attack', with facts and reason and lavish amounts of honey is best. Even then they might decide against you and decide to do their bit for the communal beekeeping effort rather than the individual. If they do you just have to shake yourself down and move on. Life can be a real cow sometimes, and I have had my share of it.

(The entire UK land area is only enough to give 2.5 colonies per sqare mile. A large proportion of that land is bee useless. If a quarter of it is bee terrtory of worth then the density is already going to be quite high in prime regions.)

 

[Poly Hive]

I looked at some stats and worked it out probably wrongly that the risk of AFB is in the region of 00.001 % which to my way of thinking is pretty reasonable.

But the disease stick is waved ferociously.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

I looked at some stats and worked it out probably wrongly that the risk of AFB is in the region of 00.001 % which to my way of thinking is pretty reasonable.

But the disease stick is waved ferociously.

PH

lol.maths eh?

Only error is that the use of 'percent' skews your decimal point by two places. 0.1% is not far off the mark..........so a three hive guy can, on average, expect to see AFB in his unit once every 300 odd years.

 

[Bob Bee]

lol.maths eh?

Only error is that the use of 'percent' skews your decimal point by two places. 0.1% is not far off the mark..........so a three hive guy can, on average, expect to see AFB in his unit once every 300 odd years.

 

[philkhor]

I've just come across this thread and find it fascinating. Thank you "into the lion's den" for your common sense responses - of course the land owner can choose who to allow on their property. We would hope that by behaving reasonably, responsibly and respectfully one could persuade them to stick with us but it is ultimately their decision. If they don't want us we should bow out gracefully and move on.

I'm moved to write because so many of the contributions seem to be written from the perspective of self protectionism rather than the greater good and I think we need to redress the balance a little: I've put quite a lot of work into establishing my out apiaries and, yes, I would be disgruntled if someone set up hives in close proximity. But I don't consider that I have an exclusive right to all the forage within a 3m radius simply because I was there first.

As for use of government land for private use: fine if one pays a reasonable rent that goes into the public coffers or provides a benefit to the public in some other way. Otherwise I would not be surprised if the citizenry rise up in complaint about the misuse of public property and diversion of assets from the public to the individual. Publicly owned land should benefit the public at large.

 

[Swarm]

A commercial guy set up an apiary nearby, he's built it to a fair size. Best of luck to him, I'm just mad I overlooked it.

 

[user 6228]

...However it IS Lancashire, which is not generally considered a prime beekeeping county and the OP could have a very valid concern. ...

It would help to know where in Lancashire, since the county has large areas of heather moorland, and flat fenland farming land (called Mosses locally) large areas of mixed farmland, and a variable set of microclimates from ultramild coast to cold uplands. Rainfalls vary wildly, but usually better than the SE.( more is better)

Derek (a native of "CenWulf's Lea" in exile)

 

[BBG]

I've just come across this thread and find it fascinating. Thank you "into the lion's den" for your common sense responses - of course the land owner can choose who to allow on their property. We would hope that by behaving reasonably, responsibly and respectfully one could persuade them to stick with us but it is ultimately their decision. If they don't want us we should bow out gracefully and move on.

I'm moved to write because so many of the contributions seem to be written from the perspective of self protectionism rather than the greater good and I think we need to redress the balance a little: I've put quite a lot of work into establishing my out apiaries and, yes, I would be disgruntled if someone set up hives in close proximity. But I don't consider that I have an exclusive right to all the forage within a 3m radius simply because I was there first.

As for use of government land for private use: fine if one pays a reasonable rent that goes into the public coffers or provides a benefit to the public in some other way. Otherwise I would not be surprised if the citizenry rise up in complaint about the misuse of public property and diversion of assets from the public to the individual. Publicly owned land should benefit the public at large.

Self-protectionism??? Surely wanting your livestock to live on a healthy environment where they can thrive is hardly the Self-protectionism you mean ...

benefit to the public - like ensuring bees survive, pollinate and increase - and probably at your own cost

 

[philkhor]

benefit to the public - like ensuring bees survive, pollinate and increase - and probably at your own cost

It seems you're presuming other beekeepers are not capable of providing for their bees?

 

[hedgerow pete]

personally i can only see an assc training ground in a bad light and i would think one of the worst things any land owner would want unless of course they are the national trust , in which case they deserve each over in actual fact throw in a rspca office in the mix to.

it seams to me from the original thread that someone is too lazy to find there own and has decided to move in and then bully the original set up out or just harrass them off. to me thats a classic assc trick, well done for keeping the good work,

 

[Shabro]

I think a good question to ask would be how would you like someone doing that to you?

 

[BBG]

It seems you're presuming other beekeepers are not capable of providing for their bees?

Why you have made that statement baffles me. It is you presuming I presume, which puts you in the company of G Bush of the if we know, what they know ........

 

[philkhor]

Well, it's hornet's nest!
1. Hedgerow Pete - Association training site: is the presumption that these are all bad? If so, why? I'm interested in case I have to recommend dismantling ours!
2. Shabro - No, I wouldn't like it if someone got me thrown off an apiary site so that they could use it. But I don't think I have an inalienable right to the use of an apiary on someone else's land. The problem with an individual having the benefit of the use of public land is one of accountability. It is quite possible (and in today's climate, very probable) that someone from the press will write that beek X has given Official Y two jars of honey, or bought him a a pint or whatever, in exchange for using the site to the exclusion of all others and that no-one else was given the opportunity etc etc, Not good for the officials concerned, not good for the beekeeper and not good for beekeeping.
3. BBG - Your comments did seem to be about protecting the environment and looking after the welfare of the bees in question. I can't see how these arguments prevent another beek from keeping his/her bees on or near the apiary unless they weren't good beekeepers.

I guess, I'm just trying to be consistent and trying to ensure that our arguments have a reasonable basis....

 

[philkhor]

Actually it was Rumsfeld who is famous for "the things we know, we know we don't know and we don't know that we don't know" (or words to that effect) I think it was about the only sensible thing he said.