Painting inside of hive

[jeff33]

I wonder if these people have a seat down with the bees to go through the various shades on offer....

 

[Apiarisnt]

I use linseed oil. Keeps the wood looking good as well as protecting it.

Raw (not 'boiled') linseed oil with around 7% - 8% beeswax seems to work for me on the outside of cedar. Nothing on the inside. Just need to warm it gently before applying.

 

[ericbeaumont]

These two quotes say it all:

John Guilfoyle: Paint - Hoop pine is not really an outside timber, but we cannot use hard wood as it would be far too heavy. Therefore it has to be kept well painted to give you maximum service. We recommend 3 coats for the inside of the box and 4 coats for the outside. Choose a light colour as this reflects the heat. Any paint which is suitable for humans is suitable for bees.
Queensland Govt: Most of the timber used in the beekeeping industry is from plantations of hoop pine (Araucaria cunninghamii). This timber does not seem to have the durability of timber from large, naturally occurring trees.
Timber rots quickly in hot, wet climates. Therefore it is essential to treat timber to avoid unnecessary waste.

The use of a timber unsuited for the job is presumably (anyone know?) driven by cheap availability and cost of imported alternatives, but that is a lot of work and a lot of copper napthenate.

 

[pargyle]

....another is Philip Argyle, also Luke Taylor.

Yes, that will be me ... but I paint the insides of my Poly hives with propolis dissoved in methylated spirits - the meths rapidly evaporates and leaves a lovely bee smell in the hive .. as the bees tend to propolise the inside of the hives I figure it gives them a nice start to their endeavours ... Basically propolis varnish.

Takes minutes to put a few coats on as it dries in seconds ..

I've often wondered about Shellac (which is a secretion from the female Lac Bug dissolved in alcohol) but I've never used it ..

 

[Antipodes]

Propolis varnish sounds good for my radiata pine boxes. Now to make a propolis collector!

Thanks all.....

 

[pargyle]

Propolis varnish sounds good for my radiata pine boxes. Now to make a propolis collector!

Thanks all.....

I just put hive scrapings or slumgum into a quart jar, fill it with methylated spirits and give it a shake every day for about a week by which time the meths will have dissolved most of the propolis in there. Strain the 'varnish' from the solids and store it in a sealed container. Keeps forever .. just top up the original jar with some more meths and scrapings and you are off again ...

You will be in good company .. Stradivarius finished his violins with his own propolis varnish .. sadly he took his formula to the grave so you can either use mine or make your own up !

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks for the tip. I've used shellac as a initial coating on a violin and then glair on my second. The entire instrument was coated inside and out. Tony knew what he was doing for sure but that happens when you make so many I guess!

 

[Antipodes]

Just following this one up and attaching a photo showing what one of the boxes looks like on a hive I visited today-just on the cold air drainage side. Inside the box I discovered that the bees were avoiding that side of the box, with the brood on the other warmer side. The other three sides of the box were fine. Water droplets were present on the surface of the box wall (inside) so the water is saturating the wood and going through to the paint on the outside and lifting it. Best quality primer, undercoat and topcoat too.

There is no paint or other product on the inside of that box.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just following this one up and attaching a photo showing what one of the boxes looks like on a hive I visited today-just on the cold air drainage side. Inside the box I discovered that the bees were avoiding that side of the box, with the brood on the other warmer side. .

You need a cosy to keep the whole box warm

 

[pargyle]

Just following this one up and attaching a photo showing what one of the boxes looks like on a hive I visited today-just on the cold air drainage side. Inside the box I discovered that the bees were avoiding that side of the box, with the brood on the other warmer side. The other three sides of the box were fine. Water droplets were present on the surface of the box wall (inside) so the water is saturating the wood and going through to the paint on the outside and lifting it. Best quality primer, undercoat and topcoat too.

There is no paint or other product on the inside of that box.

I don't think that it is moisture coming through from the inside of the hive .. I very much doubt that enough condensation would be generated to saturate the timber.

Those blisters are one of two things:

1. If you have hives that were made from timber that had not been fully seasoned and were painted with a non-breathable paint. Hot weather released the moisture from the timber and with no opportunity to pass through the paint film caused the blisters.

2. Very oily timber painted with a water based finish .. in the heat of your summer again the oil in the timber releases and the paint film separates.


Have you pricked a hole in any of the blisters or scraped one off to see what is underneath and where the separation is .. and whether there is moisture underneath the paint film ?

 

[Antipodes]

Thanks Pargyle, interesting points.

The wood was bone dry (probably kiln dried), radiata pine from across the Tasman (New Zealand), and was from the beekeeping shop here (they import them). It is not an oily timber. All the paint used was the best quality exterior grade paint applied during appropriate conditions. The blisters have only appeared on the hive during the winter here...there has been no hot weather and no sun on the hive, but the hive is on a hill (common here) and is exposed to very cold drainage air on that side. It seemed to me that moisture inside the hive produced by the bees, is condensing on the cold surface of the hive wall . I noticed beading of water on the surface of that interior wall of the hive when I looked in, and the timber looked very wet there too. There were no bees on that side of the hive at all, and it is not a strong colony. The blistering is only on the cold air side.

No I haven't picked at any of the blisters but will replace the box when the weather warms up and take the paint off that side and fix it up.

 

[viridens]

It seems the lack of penetration and bonding of primer or undercoat into the timber is often the problem. They are thick since they contain a lot of filler material to help level a rough surface, but usually just sit on top of timber without much penetration. In my experience it helps to thin them so that they soak in more, or put on thinned top coat as a better primer first.

 

[pargyle]

Thanks Pargyle, interesting points.

The wood was bone dry (probably kiln dried), radiata pine from across the Tasman (New Zealand), and was from the beekeeping shop here (they import them). It is not an oily timber. All the paint used was the best quality exterior grade paint applied during appropriate conditions. The blisters have only appeared on the hive during the winter here...there has been no hot weather and no sun on the hive, but the hive is on a hill (common here) and is exposed to very cold drainage air on that side. It seemed to me that moisture inside the hive produced by the bees, is condensing on the cold surface of the hive wall . I noticed beading of water on the surface of that interior wall of the hive when I looked in, and the timber looked very wet there too. There were no bees on that side of the hive at all, and it is not a strong colony. The blistering is only on the cold air side.

No I haven't picked at any of the blisters but will replace the box when the weather warms up and take the paint off that side and fix it up.

Interesting .. I'm still doubtful that moisture is penetrating from the inside of the hive but it may be the lack of flexibiility in the paint .. if it's only on the cold side it may be that the paint and timber are expanding and contracting at different rates with fluctuating temperature and allowing the undercoat to lift off the substrate ... It would be interesting to see (When you pop a blister) whether the undercoat has separated from the timber or the topcoat has separated from the undercoat.

It's all a bit academic as your are going to have to strip and repaint but it would be nice to know why the paint has developed these defects.