Oxalic Acid

[Beedogg]

Is there an *****'s guide to treating with Oxalic Acid anywhere on these pages? I've read of dribbling and vapourisation, and I've seen some bits and pieces elsewhere on the internet. But I'd be grateful for guidance as to how to do either.
I treated my colonies with Apiguard in the Autumn but I've a feeling I should be doing more.

 

[Ian123]

At this time of year you can rule out trickling on normal colonies, they’ll contain brood so not effective on mites in cells.A vaping series would be your best option if you intend using oxalic atm, that then depends if you’ve got a vaporiser. IMO the best use of oxalic is at the end of Dec early Jan as a single shot during a broodless period, and then this gives you as clean a start as possible to the upcoming season.

You probably want to think about if you’ll buy a vaporiser or conventional treatments, or if they actually need it. Apiguard can in my opinion be a little hit and miss so I would be cautious. Apiboxal is the only legal Uk Oxalic treatment, you’ll find in Europe generic oxalic is approved and used!

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks. I haven't got a vaporiser but I've seen them advertised. I've also read horror-stories of people gassing their colonies and so I'm keen to do it properly and not muck it up. I was hoping that there might be some sort of step-by-step guide and/or recommended equipment that I could study.

 

[Ian123]

Thanks. I haven't got a vaporiser but I've seen them advertised. I've also read horror-stories of people gassing their colonies and so I'm keen to do it properly and not muck it up. I was hoping that there might be some sort of step-by-step guide and/or recommended equipment that I could study.

Try this as a start

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've also read horror-stories of people gassing their colonies

Where on earth did you pick up rubbish like that!? please share with us so that we can all have a good laugh

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks Ian

 

[pargyle]

Where on earth did you pick up rubbish like that!? please share with us so that we can all have a good laugh

It's the beginners section ... @ Beedogg - this post is not directed at you, There are lots of misconceptions about OA treatments -usually put forward by people who know nothing about it.

I'm sure there will be some HELPFUL posts about the various methods of treatment with OA. There are a few threads on here about OA by sublimation but they are not always easy to find.

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks. The video that Ian directed me to was very helpful. I've enquired of my local BKA as to whether they have sublimators that I might borrow. Otherwise I guess I'll have to buy one.

 

[fian]

At this time of year you can rule out trickling on normal colonies, they’ll contain brood so not effective on mites in cells.A vaping series would be your best option if you intend using oxalic atm, that then depends if you’ve got a vaporiser. IMO the best use of oxalic is at the end of Dec early Jan as a single shot during a broodless period, and then this gives you as clean a start as possible to the upcoming season.

You probably want to think about if you’ll buy a vaporiser or conventional treatments, or if they actually need it. Apiguard can in my opinion be a little hit and miss so I would be cautious. Apiboxal is the only legal Uk Oxalic treatment, you’ll find in Europe generic oxalic is approved and used!

Not in Spain, there are 3 authorized products with oxalic and use format
Ecoxal, Oxybee, Varromed and the format is dispersion/drip in all three cases. It is true that you can find oxalic powder for use with a sublimator or vaporizer, but its use does not count for the purpose of demonstrating the obligatory nature of carrying out an annual treatment against varroasis.

 

[Beedogg]

And (at the risk of being flamed) is there any truth in the suggestion that vapping in this build-up period might put the queen off laying for a period? Or is that just an OWT.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

is there any truth in the suggestion that vapping in this build-up period might put the queen off laying for a period? Or is that just an OWT.

As you said - another fairy story, you will find that vaping the bees has little effect on the bees' day to day business. I vape from below the OMF and never shut the entrances, the bees just carry on as if nothing was amiss, albeit you do hear them frantically fanning at the height of the treatment. (you have to realise that the 'gas' stage of the treatment takes seconds as, as soon as it hits cooler air it desublimates and turns back into micro crystals. It has no negative effect on the queen whatsoever, although trickling may.
Bear in mind one thing, you have done nothing wrong treatment wise thus far. Not everyone makes a big hooha about winter OA treatment, I seldom do all mine every midwinter - it was originally designed as an alternative to autumn treatment, although there's no harm in doing it as an extra.

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks.

 

[Swarm]

And (at the risk of being flamed) is there any truth in the suggestion that vapping in this build-up period might put the queen off laying for a period? Or is that just an OWT.

I've not seen any issues with OAV, whether via a pan or vaping tool but I've not inspected during that treatment period.
I do know that E&MBees has a colony that leave the hive and hang around on the outside every vape.

 

[E&MBees]

I've not seen any issues with OAV, whether via a pan or vaping tool but I've not inspected during that treatment period.
I do know that E&MBees has a colony that leave the hive and hang around on the outside every vape.

Yes. Matilda’s bees have a hissy fit every time I vape them. They are the only colony in the apiary that do. Her mother’s bees, ‘M’ carry on as normal.

 

[Beedogg]

Another potentially silly question: if there is already a super on (I left a super of stores as winter feed on two of my colonies last autumn) should that come off before vaping? Or, to put it another way, given that Oxalic Acid is toxic to humans I believe, presumably OA vaping would contaminate the drawn comb in any super rendering it useless in future as a honey super? Is that correct?

 

[Ian123]

Remove the super shoe bees off vape and put it back on if you want to be extra careful.
I’m pretty sure the US have tested honey after vaping and found no increase above the normal levels. I’ll look and see if I can find anything.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

given that Oxalic Acid is toxic to humans I believe, presumably OA vaping would contaminate the drawn comb in any super rendering it useless in future as a honey super? Is that correct?

No, it's not correct. You'd have to eat a lot of OA for it to have an effect, there's probably more Oxalic in a piece of carrot that what is deposited on comb during vaping.

Remove the super shoe bees off vape and put it back on if you want to be extra careful.
I’m pretty sure the US have tested honey after vaping and found no increase above the normal levels

 

[Ian123]

You may like this……Repeated oxalic acid vaporisation - The Apiarist

 

[JamezF]

I've never seen any explanation of where the re-solidified OA goes after vaping. I assume tiny crystals end up all over everything in the hive so in the absence of better information I'd personally prefer not to have the super on, but I imagine there's not going to be very much that ends up getting in the honey

Saying that "OA is toxic to humans" is perhaps a bit misleading. There's plenty of stuff that we eat (except JBM, who doesn't appear to believe that green vegetables are human food) that contains OA, some at higher levels than the famed rhubarb. Sorrell, parsley and spinach all contain OA as far as I recall. I'm not sure if it would be possible to eat sufficient for it to have a negative effect though.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’m pretty sure the US have tested honey after vaping and found no increase above the normal levels. I’ll look and see if I can find anything.

Yes Randy Oliver has some data but you know what his website is like !