oxalic acid strength

[barry]

hi all i have some oxalic acid that i got from maisemore which i thought was ready to go in the hive but have noticed on the bottle it says 6% acid, 30%sugar, water up to one litre. in their catalogue it says put 50ml into one of our syringes and squirt over the bees. which i take to be 5ml per seem. is it ready to use from the bottle or do i have to dilute further with water.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Set aside a few hours and read this thread!!

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8142

 

[barry]

just had a read of that hread. ouch ive got a headache. has anyone used it from the bottle and if so how did you get on. also some say they dont use OA why not. id likle to hear your opinions and is there an alternative treatment before we enter spring that is not quite so harsh.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Yes and you have also have gained a BSc (hons) in Analytical Chemistry if you understood it!

 

[barry]

sometimes it can get a we bit to technical and my brain starts to shut down as i read more and more. but still some good advice hidden in there that i managed to understand (i think)

 

[Finman]

My calculation was:

Take that 6% stuff 100 g
then add into that

add 50 g sugar
add 20 g water (20 ml)

you will have 3,5% OA

 

[gavin]

My calculation was:

Take that 6% stuff 100 g
then add into that

add 50 g sugar
add 20 g water (20 ml)

you will have 3,5% OA

You are not a good learner, are you Finman?

What is the density of the 30% sucrose solution?
What is the density after you add 50g sugar?

So what volume is your 100g of 6% oxalic and 30% sugar?
Then what is the total volume after you add 50g sugar and 20g (or 20ml) water?

You can't know what the (w/v) percentage is without knowing the volumes. So this isn't the way to adjust 6% to 3.5% or even 4.5%.

Barry: the bottle seems to say dilute your bottle into 1 litre to get the 6% solution. The simplest thing for you to do is to follow the instructions. The complex way (which makes it safer) is in that other thread. Follow Finman's way and you will make the oxalic more dilute and the sugar stronger, which is heading in the right direction but isn't accurate.

cheers

G.

 

[barry]

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
its the attack of the chemists

 

[Poly Hive]

If I were a betting man I know where my money is.

PH

 

[jimbeekeeper]

 

[Hombre]

Alas, you aren't the one with the problem PH. If I was a bank manager or a mind reader I might know where your money is too . . .

Then you wonder why the authorities don't pass it as an approved medicament for use on bees, because of the lack of clarity and understanding on the part of the users. I don't know if this is a recent phenomenon or if it has been going on more than the two years that I have been around.

Th**nes sell Oxalic Acid Technical (di-hydrate) and describe it as 71.4% oxalic acid. With the standard instruction to mix 75g with 1kg sugar and 1 litre of water.

As Ruary has said on a number of occasions, Read carefully and use the instructions supplied on the package. They are the ones that are supposed to apply.

The only reason for confusion is that people are not confident or don't know what they are doing. Too much imagination and insufficient reading of instructions on packages may be to blame.

If you are confident enough to buy a product from a supplier, perhaps it behoves us to be confident in following the instructions for it's use also. Either that or change your supplier.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

If you are confident enough to buy a product from a supplier, perhaps it behoves us to be confident in following the instructions for it's use also.

Is it not the Male "flat pack" syndrome?

 

[Finman]

G.

GAVIN!

iF someone says %, it is weight percents. No one can calculate chemicals in solution % if they are mesured with coffee cup and as volumes.

Gavin, can't you stop delivering your stupid ideas.

 

[Hombre]

In plain text Jim,with no riddles, "YES".

 

[Finman]

.
Why this forum is full of mad scientists?

When trickling method was invented, it was meant to an ordinary beekeeper.

In my country, even if beekeepers are quite stupid, they have no difficulties to give medication to bees. 90% give oxalix trickling. Why they are stupid? The average age is about 65 years.

 

[Finman]

You can't know what the (w/v) percentage is without knowing the volumes.

So this isn't the way to adjust 6% to 3.5% or even 4.5%.



G.

Stupid! They are weight percents!

100 g water
100 g sugar
7,5 OA

= 207,5 ..............7,5/207,5 = 0,036144578 about 3,6%


WHERE YOU GET THOSE VOLUME PERCENTS

 

[Meg]

iF someone says %, it is weight percents. No one can calculate chemicals in solution % if they are mesured with coffee cup and as volumes.

Gavin, can't you stop delivering your stupid ideas.

Finman, That is all very obvious to you who is used to chemicals, but not too everyone else. How the bl**dy hell is Jo bloggs supposed to know that the % age is by weight and not volume? I hope I am not too stupid and have a modicum of sense, but I would not assume that anyone else knows this fact.

Hombre - I agree - do what is it syas on the instructions - oh sorry, all blokes?! (running off swiftly to more booze here....)

Personally I will be making my own solution up in the morning - no one to blame but myself.

Meg

 

[Finman]

How the bl**dy hell is Jo bloggs supposed to know that the % age is by weight and not volume?

It is so easy when the formula says:

take 100 g sugar
take 100 ml = 100 g water
take 7,5 g OA

You see, they are measured with weight, not with volumes.

If you measure with volumes for compost, it is said, take 8 measure sand and 2 measure organic material.

 

[Hivemaker.]

So whats the best way to mix oxalic acid,and the best concentration,6%,3.2%,4.2%,3.5%....how do we get 3.2%, that is not really 4.2%.Mmm so many different recipes,wonder what Jamie oliver would use.

Perhaps we could use Finmans compost recipe.

 

[Meg]

Soo sorry Finman, I am clearly very stupid - HOWEVER, the original post said nothing about grams (or grammes) but only %, so again, how were they supposed to know?!!!

Clear as mud.

Try searching for the New Zealand varroa book - very good advice and an easy recipe.

Me - I go for aboout 3.5 to 4%. A bit out in my measurement and it is still effective (above 3.2% acid) withoout killing the bees - below 5% or there abouts. A rough and ready practise but has worked very well for me with my kitchen scales.

Need more alcohol me thinks - now would that be 42% or 16% or 11% or a fortified something.... but if I add a mixer wouold that make it 20% or 5% - oh but what about ice...?