Oxalic acid and super

[Finman]

I don't think

I'm not commenting on the right or wrongs of varroa treatment ...

I wonder who will be right in the long term ?

The difference is that I know. Nothing To do with 'view'.

First time I handled a swarm for mites with Perizin 1987.

YES, 27 years ago. The swarm brought 60 kg honey in that summer month.

But as Dishmop says, he does want honey from hives. I know that Most beekeepers want honey from their hives.

How long is long term. To the bee it is 6 weeks in summer.

It is very sure that killing mites from swarm is the best and easiest way To protect you hive.

 

[Dishmop]

If a person treats their bees for varroa regardless of if they have them or not, then they will never know if the bees will die if they dont treat them.....

I dont really see why you brought me and wanting honey into the equation.

 

[Finman]

Does a nice job of cleaning stains (even rust !) off fibreglass boats ... as well !

If a person



Douple

 

[Finman]

Does a nice job of cleaning stains (even rust !) off fibreglass boats ... as well !

If a person treats their bees for varroa regardless of if they have them or not, then they will never know if the bees will die if they dont treat them.....

I dont really see why you brought me and wanting honey into the equation.

What a wisdom....if hive has varroa or not...

30 years ago varroa arrived To my area. Old experienced beekeepers löst all thei hives and they sid not know what happened in the hive.
It was time when treatments were not known.

But you continue your long term thinking there...please do. World is not ready at least To those "do nothing Guys".

....but your hives out there...

That boat thing I do not understand...

.

 

[Dishmop]

That boat thing I do not understand...

Look it up on google.


Are you able to explain why hives that havent been treated, havent died.......

Simple question, simple answer.

No dogs biting at legs or internet bullying..
Just a simple explaination.

 

[curry756]

With respect
My comment -"I have only seen it referred to as an autumn or winter treatment"
Your answer - "you're wrong"

No I wasn't. I wrote as a statement of what I had seen and conscious I am still relatively new, I was curious as to why you would use it and concerned that according to what I had read you were being a little cavalier about the "no harm" and "bin it". Thanks to your link I have seen more. So now if I wrote that I would be wrong. I wasn't at the time

Hope your bees thrive.

Apologies. That was a bit harsh on my part. Its just frustrating trying to get some useful information on here sometimes especially as I had a deadline.

But the end result is that we both learned something

 

[curry756]

I'd be more concerned about the OA you are going to slather on the bees killing them than the mites - the 'in date' label is an indication only if the bottle hasn't been opened. If it's ben open for five months the only thing I'd be using it for is polishing my brasses!

How long is it good for from opening then? I was told 6 months from opening. I was NOT referring to the expiry date on the bottle. That gives it till next year I think.

 

[alanf]

How long is it good for from opening then? I was told 6 months from opening. I was NOT referring to the expiry date on the bottle. That gives it till next year I think.

The problem with stored oxalic and sugar solution is that it forms HMF as a breakdown product of the sugars. HMF is harmful to bees and turns the solution yellowish or straw coloured. Heat makes the process faster, so never store on windowsills or near boilers. Whether it's open or not isn't a factor, excluding air doesn't stop the reaction. You don't know the storage conditions before you bought it. If you bought a fresh batch for winter treatments, stored in a fridge since and It's still colourless in the bottle, is that good to use now? I don't know, and you don't either if you have no way of testing it.

The use by date on the italian ready made solution is over optimistic. The Swiss Oxuvar version gets round the problem by mixing pre measured oxalic solution and sugar before use. Personally, I make up solution from basic ingredients as needed and discard any not used after a week or so. I see that as safer than buying solution where I don't know the age or storage conditions.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicstorage.html is an HTML version of the most widely quoted research or search for bogdanov + oxalic + sucrose for the PDF.

 

[curry756]

The problem with stored oxalic and sugar solution is that it forms HMF as a breakdown product of the sugars. HMF is harmful to bees and turns the solution yellowish or straw coloured. Heat makes the process faster, so never store on windowsills or near boilers. Whether it's open or not isn't a factor, excluding air doesn't stop the reaction. You don't know the storage conditions before you bought it. If you bought a fresh batch for winter treatments, stored in a fridge since and It's still colourless in the bottle, is that good to use now? I don't know, and you don't either if you have no way of testing it.

The use by date on the italian ready made solution is over optimistic. The Swiss Oxuvar version gets round the problem by mixing pre measured oxalic solution and sugar before use. Personally, I make up solution from basic ingredients as needed and discard any not used after a week or so. I see that as safer than buying solution where I don't know the age or storage conditions.

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/oxalicstorage.html is an HTML version of the most widely quoted research or search for bogdanov + oxalic + sucrose for the PDF.

Bugger. Noted for future. Thanks for info. I will look into this more.

 

[Ely]

How many of you count the fleas on your animals before you decide to treat? I know I like to keep my home and animals free of fleas as much as possible by regular treatment before infestation becomes obvious. I take the same approach towards my bees and cut the bullshit.

 

[bontbee]

Instead of using oxalic cull the first one, or even two, frames of brood once they are sealed....just a thought!

 

[bontbee]

Instead of using oxalic cull the first one, or even two, frames of brood once they are sealed....just a thought!

Do I need to get my coat?

 

[steve56616]

Finman.. did you not notice that I had already quoted what you had written and that therefore it was rather pointless of you to go back and delete half of what you said, in another of your attempts to twist things to your advantage?

Dishmop's being unpleasant again tut tut tut. So boring reading a good thread when some people just want to cause an argument. SAD

 

[Dishmop]

Dishmop's being unpleasant again tut tut tut. So boring reading a good thread when some people just want to cause an argument. SAD

Just telling the truth.
Perhaps you are not aware that Finman writes something, waits for a few answers and then alters what he originally wrote.. then makes another post and tries to manipulate what other people have said.

In post 24 I quoted what he had originally said in post 23.......

 

[yeogi75]

i always get oxalic acid in bulk, and make up a litre at a time with demin water no sugar added until required, then mix with sugar as and when required , then throw the rest away unless I know some one who is going to clean there garden decking and give it to them

 

[yeogi75]

Instead of using oxalic cull the first one, or even two, frames of brood once they are sealed....just a thought!

Do I need to get my coat?

or even better put a super frame into brood box nine times out of ten they will build drone comb on the bottom cut off and reinsert for next time

 

[steve56616]

Just telling the truth.
Perhaps you are not aware that Finman writes something, waits for a few answers and then alters what he originally wrote.. then makes another post and tries to manipulate what other people have said.

In post 24 I quoted what he had originally said in post 23.......

I'm very aware that every time he says something he is criticized and ridiculed. I actually think he has more knowledge than most on here put together.
Just my humble opinion

 

[yeogi75]

I'm very aware that every time he says something he is criticized and ridiculed. I actually think he has more knowledge than most on here put together.
Just my humble opinion

I agree I have pm him and got very valuable advice

 

[bontbee]

or even better put a super frame into brood box nine times out of ten they will build drone comb on the bottom cut off and reinsert for next time

Yes, drone culling, whichever set-up you use, will hit the mite population through the season.

The reason I suggested taking out the first sealed frame is that the mites in a swarm are all phoretic, and (I imagine) a goodly proportion - I won't say all, cos I don't know! - will jump into the first available brood, to be sealed up and then removed. I have seen the recommendation that two frames are removed but, on reflection, I don't think that would be appropriate for a swarm - only for a large colony that had been shaken onto new comb.

 

[Dishmop]

I'm very aware that every time he says something he is criticized and ridiculed. I actually think he has more knowledge than most on here put together.
Just my humble opinion

Thats because a lot of what he says is his view and as far as he is concerned everybody else is wrong.
He says my bees will die if not treated.. I ask him why they havent and he cannot tell me.
If a new beek has to ask then they dont know if what he tells them is correct.
In my opinion he is a danger to new beekeepers.,

I actually think he has more knowledge than most on here put together.

Thats because he's always telling us that he has