Oxalic 6%, Payn*s in the Arse!

[parkranger]

As I have some ****** oxalix waiting for use, called them this morning to check whether or not it needs further diluting and their answer was " our own beekeepers use it as it is straight from the bottle and have done for some time without any problems".

 

[Finman]

.
That is strange how many people think that markings and numbers in the bottle mean something else what you read from it. Splended. And numbers of researchers mean nothing.

Very strange because the researchers use numbers in locigal manner and strangely, 2-hive owners 10 years later know the issue better than researcher himself.

Brittish beekeeping forums are the only ones which have their own meaning to figures.

I just cannot stand these natural born beekeepers.


When you make solution on weigh base from where heck you get volume percents.
.

1:1 sugarsyrup 100 g = 80ml

.



Pills

 

[blackcavebees]

Putting my hard hat on before asking Q ....

I was told last week by my instructor that oxalic acid treatments are bad for the queen, that if you are going to use it, it can only be used ONCE in the lifetime of a queen and it can often cause her to become drone laying and be superceded.

I have NO experience with oxalic acid, and no one locally I know here uses it as part of their varroa management. Is this possibly because we only now have resistant varroa in NI, and not in my area (that we know of)? Is oxalic something I am going to have to integrate into my varroa control from now on?

Thanks

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Putting my hard hat on before asking Q ....

I was told last week by my instructor that oxalic acid treatments are bad for the queen, that if you are going to use it, it can only be used ONCE in the lifetime of a queen and it can often cause her to become drone laying and be superceded.

I have NO experience with oxalic acid, and no one locally I know here uses it as part of their varroa management. Is this possibly because we only now have resistant varroa in NI, and not in my area (that we know of)? Is oxalic something I am going to have to integrate into my varroa control from now on?

Thanks

Im no expert as not even done my first full year - but surely that has to be a load of old cobblers .

 

[user 6228]

.
That is strange how many people think that markings and numbers in the bottle mean something else what you read from it. Splended. And numbers of researchers mean nothing.

Very strange because the researchers use numbers in locigal manner and strangely, 2-hive owners 10 years later know the issue better than researcher himself.

Brittish beekeeping forums are the only ones which have their own meaning to figures.

I just cannot stand these natural born beekeepers.


When you make solution on weigh base from where heck you get volume percents.
.

1:1 sugarsyrup 100 g = 80ml



Pills

shouldnt you quote it in moles per litre? (0.02)

 

[Black Comb]

Well HH make sure you know your facts before you call someone's post a load of old cobblers.
It is recommended that oxalic is only used once on one set of bees. If you oxalic at Christmas then by the time you MAY have to do it again those bees will be long dead. Another good reason for mixing up the treatments and using biotechnical as well. As for the queen, well been discussed many times on here, some say it doesn't matter, some say it does. Nowadays not many queens seem to last more than one year, oxalic or not.

The reason for using oxalic at Christmas is that is knocks down the mites when they are at their most vulnerable and gives the colony a decent mite minimal start for the spring.

there are lots of free downloads on the NBU website, so plenty of opportunity to learn.

Of course if you do not have varroa or if it is only a very minor problem better not to as none of us like tipping chemical into our hives.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Nowadays not many queens seem to last more than one year, oxalic or not.

Provided they are well mated, this is something i have not had a problem with.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Well HH make sure you know your facts before you call someone's post a load of old cobblers.
It is recommended that oxalic is only used once on one set of bees. If you oxalic at Christmas then by the time you MAY have to do it again those bees will be long dead. Another good reason for mixing up the treatments and using biotechnical as well. As for the queen, well been discussed many times on here, some say it doesn't matter, some say it does. Nowadays not many queens seem to last more than one year, oxalic or not.

The reason for using oxalic at Christmas is that is knocks down the mites when they are at their most vulnerable and gives the colony a decent mite minimal start for the spring.

there are lots of free downloads on the NBU website, so plenty of opportunity to learn.

Of course if you do not have varroa or if it is only a very minor problem better not to as none of us like tipping chemical into our hives.

Ah well i've read the post differently to you hence my logic .

I've read it that the poster said you can only use it ONCE in a lifetime of the queen. I fully understand you can only do it one a year, the queen will be at least 2-4 years old (well we work by seasons not years) before you consider replacing her. Hence it would be logical that you are going to use oxalic acid again on her otherwise your mites would be out of control be it there's other methods but no reason you cant use OA again.

That was my logic anyway =)

 

[BeeNice]

Just to go back to 'from Italy' stock, I thought that the OA had a short shelf life, 10 days or so, in which case... making up in Italy, shipping and selling would it be out of date and that's why its 6% as it losses it's strenght? This is a question not a statment.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Well HH make sure you know your facts before you call someone's post a load of old cobblers.
It is recommended that oxalic is only used once on one set of bees. If you oxalic at Christmas then by the time you MAY have to do it again those bees will be long dead. Another good reason for mixing up the treatments and using biotechnical as well. As for the queen, well been discussed many times on here, some say it doesn't matter, some say it does. Nowadays not many queens seem to last more than one year, oxalic or not.

The reason for using oxalic at Christmas is that is knocks down the mites when they are at their most vulnerable and gives the colony a decent mite minimal start for the spring.

there are lots of free downloads on the NBU website, so plenty of opportunity to learn.

Of course if you do not have varroa or if it is only a very minor problem better not to as none of us like tipping chemical into our hives.

Well FINMAN i think will disagree with you and so does the abstract on the IBRA site in the julyt addition of JAR

Vol. 51 (3) pp. 271 - 276
DOI
10.3896/IBRA.1.51.3.08
Date
July 2012
Article Title
Queen survival and oxalic acid residues in sugar stores after summer application against Varroa destructor in honey bees (Apis mellifera)

Author(s)
Bram Cornelissen, Jeroen Donders, Pam van Stratum, Tjeerd Blacquière, and Coby van Dooremalen

Abstract
Methods using oxalic acid (OA) to control Varroa destructor in honey bee (Apis mellifera) colonies are widely applied. In this study, the effects of an OA spray application in early summer on the survival of young and old queens, and on OA residues in sugar stores were investigated. A questionnaire among beekeepers was used to determine the ‘normal’ and ‘acceptable’ queen mortality as a result of beekeeper activities. ‘Acceptable’ queen mortality (4.1 ± 0.1% (n = 11)) did not differ from queen mortality after OA spray application (2.7% for old and 3.8% for young queens). ‘Normal’ queen mortality (1.1 ± 0.4% (n = 11) and 4.2 ± 0.1% (n = 11) for old and young queens, respectively) also did not differ from queen mortality after spraying OA. OA found in sugar stores of colonies sprayed with OA (94 ± 7 mg/kg (n = 8)) did not differ from control colonies (80 ± 4 mg/kg (n = 9)). Finding OA residues in both groups was probably due to bees foraging on chestnut (Castanea sativa) trees. We conclude that OA spray application in periods without brood during spring and summer poses little danger to honey bee queens and that in sugar stores harvested in summer, OA residues are within the limits of natural variability.

 

[Black Comb]

Oh dear, I hope I've not stirred the ire of Finman!!

I knew I'd seen a reference to this and it is in the BBKA information leaflet. I can't find it on the BBKA site but you can see it here.
Just remove the star and type a b in front of the ees etc.

http://www.*ees-online.co.uk/downloads/Oxalic_Acid_Cleaning.pdf

The NBU varroa information leaflet says there is a danger of significant colony weakening. Assume as the queen is a member of the colony it also applies to her.

I note MM's IBRA study is on spraying, does trickling make a difference?

 

[ROACHMAN]

Putting my hard hat on before asking Q ....

I was told last week by my instructor that oxalic acid treatments are bad for the queen, that if you are going to use it, it can only be used ONCE in the lifetime of a queen and it can often cause her to become drone laying and be superceded.

I have NO experience with oxalic acid, and no one locally I know here uses it as part of their varroa management. Is this possibly because we only now have resistant varroa in NI, and not in my area (that we know of)? Is oxalic something I am going to have to integrate into my varroa control from now on?

Thanks

Im in agreemet, I also think oxalic is bad for the queen, on monitoring varroa levels post Apiguard I will only be using it on 2 of my 19 colonies.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Fair enough we're back to the age old argument only treat if needed. Both have the pluses and minus so its up to the individual which plan they go for.

 

[ROACHMAN]

Theres no point using chemicals unnecessaraly.
If Apiguard was used in the Autumn along with open mesh floors, drone monitoring etc etc there should be no need to use oxalic.

Im only using it on 2 as I still have a some mite drop on those colonies

 

[ROACHMAN]

I think it has a shelf of about 3-4 months if kept in a cool place. It becomes poisinous to the bees as it degrades.

Buy in fresh oxalic just before using, I wouldt risk using last years left overs.

 

[masterBK]

If Apiguard was used in the Autumn along with open mesh floors, drone monitoring etc etc there should be no need to use oxalic.
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I beg to differ. I use mesh floors and administered apiguard in late august getting mite drops up to several hundreds. Apiguard is not anyway close to 100% effective so expect up to 15% of mites left alive. There was no brood a couple of weeks ago so I did the oxalic acid dribble and while I got a several colonies with less than 10 mites killed I also had several with up to 50 mites killed by the acid. Mites come into colonies in september on the backs of drones kicked out of other colonies , on drifting workers and on workers from colonies collapsing in the last stages of Varroa and associated virus diseases. The whole point of IPM is to hit them as many ways as you can using the methods appropriate to the time of year. Now that they are broodless Oxalic acid should be the method of choice if you don't want a residual mite problem in spring.

 

[farbee]

.
If the bottle says 6% , it cannot be then 4.2%.

Ridicuous atitude.

Nope he is correct I think if you take it as % oxalic alone or % hydrated oxalic acid. It has been discussed.

 

[farbee]

shouldnt you quote it in moles per litre? (0.02)

If your a chemist definitely!!

 

[Ely]

I think it has a shelf of about 3-4 months if kept in a cool place. It becomes poisinous to the bees as it degrades.

Buy in fresh oxalic just before using, I wouldt risk using last years left overs.

Is this powder form or liquid?

 

[ROACHMAN]

What I am saying is to monitor mite fall first, If you are getting zero drop in my opionion you dont need to use Oxalic, if you are getting mite drop then use it, its as simple as that. Blanket use of chemicals should be avoided.