Over wintered Nuc.... how much ?

[drumgerry]

Chris - Not that DEFRA applies to me here in Scotland but I think some sort of governance of nuc selling would be a great idea. Give the buyer some recourse if the seller passes on a nuc with something obviously wrong with it that the seller should reasonably have spotted.

 

[Little John]

'Proven' is more than that.

You know that it ought to be, and I know that it ought to be - but does someone who keeps bees purely for the lucre know that, or even care ? It was Socrates of course, who considered money to be a 'corrupting substance'.

Determining characteristics takes time and expertise - that justifies a high price being asked. The same cannot be held true for a nuc, the queen of which may simply have been observed as having been successfully mated, and that was that. Which of course is the problem - for at first glance, both nucs may appear exactly the same. Only their price tags differ (or should differ).

I thought the fact that no-one had yet mentioned characteristics (or even sub-species) was significant - perhaps some of you are taking good characteristics for granted: 'taken as read' as it were - but does everybody ?

I keep hearing of new beekeepers - with minimal experience - knocking out nucs and grabbing the money: there's a lot of this happening, and there will be more to come as beekeeping becomes ever more popular and is seen as one potentially profitable activity within our recession-hit country.

I'm not sure when such behaviour becomes "unscrupulous" - I'll leave that for others to judge. I only know that it's already happening and is on the increase.

Personal recommendation and/or personal visits to the apiary may be partial solutions to this, but won't address the issues from auction or via distance selling.

LJ

 

[Chris B]

LJ, I agree with all that except that those doing it for the money are possibly professionals who have good reason to care about their reputation so are not likely to be selling sub-standard rubbish.

And by "professional" I don't mean fly-by-night pseudo-professionals who just have a fancy website but no substance behind it.

 

[drumgerry]

Would it be fair to say that most of the sideliners - ie people selling nucs as a by-product of making increase - are generally honest and trying to do their best by their customers? I would say from my own experience of buying nucs in the past that yes they are. I've not seen many amateurs trying to sell nucs as a way to make a fast buck.

The bigger commercial enterprises down south might be going about their business in a different way - I don't know. Of course there are opportunities for the unscrupulous - importing queens and pairing them up with any old frame of brood and covering bees. But a few simple questions from the buyer even if they are a beginner should be able to distinguish those. I'm thinking here of, for example, questions as to how they come by their queens if they happen to have nucs to sell early in the season. A bit of prior research would definitely pay dividends for the potential nuc-buyer.

 

[Pete D]

Chris - Not that DEFRA applies to me here in Scotland but I think some sort of governance of nuc selling would be a great idea. Give the buyer some recourse if the seller passes on a nuc with something obviously wrong with it that the seller should reasonably have spotted.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167

If its allowed its the link to DEFRA website and their guide to buying a NUC, what it should consist of etc.......... you can lead a horse to water....

Pete D

 

[pargyle]

Unfortunately Pargyle just because the association says they're suitable bees doesn't always mean they are. I know of one instance of bees being bought from an entirely unsuitable source to be sold to beginners on an association's intro to beekeeping course.

Precisely why the rest of my post refers to a known/trusted/recommended source - having attended a number of meetings and been on the new beekeepers course I've got to know the people and have some confidence that they are not in it for the money; the beeks involved have already been very generous with their time and assistance ... but I do understand that there are less scrupulous beekeepers out there that may be looking for the fast buck ... £375 for a nuc ? says it all ...

 

[drumgerry]

It's not even that the association I mentioned is "in it for the money". It's just that it's easier to source bees from a commercial supplier than to raise them themselves. My take on it is they should be putting more effort into that and less into firing squads of new beekeepers through their introductory course and giving them unsuitable bees at the end of it. I can't imagine they're the only association in the UK doing this.

 

[ultreen1]

I think £170-£200 for a good overwintered nuc is fine, if anyone is prepared to pay that sort of money a bit of research is needed.
Beginner or not you make sure what you're buying is decent, or at least the seller!
Check the Internet, do they have a website? Are there any reviews about them? Do a web search of the name and what they're selling!
If you come up with nothing that might be a warning!
My nan always told me: "Buy cheap buy twice" and " a fool and his money are soon parted"
Maybe I was lucky last year buying my overwintered nuc for £170, they didn't swarm, the queen was prolific and I had lots of honey. But the customer care and email correspondence I received from my suppliers (even tho they say on their website they are unable to answer questions) throughout the season was invaluable.
I would buy from them again and recommend them to friends even tho the price has gone up £30!

 

[drumgerry]

I think £170-£200 for a good overwintered nuc is fine, if anyone is prepared to pay that sort of money a bit of research is needed.
Beginner or not you make sure what you're buying is decent, or at least the seller!
Check the Internet, do they have a website? Are there any reviews about them? Do a web search of the name and what they're selling!
If you come up with nothing that might be a warning!

Good advice if we're talking about a commercial supplier. But if it's a local experienced beekeeper selling you're unlikely to get a website or online reviews! And what they're supplying might be streets ahead of what you can get from a commercial operation.

An ordinary beekeeper should be willing to let you inspect the nuc in advance of purchase although logistically that might have to take place on a different day from the day of purchase.

 

[pargyle]

Check the Internet, do they have a website? Are there any reviews about them? Do a web search of the name and what they're selling!
If you come up with nothing that might be a warning!

It doesn't always follow ... less than 12 months ago a lot of people were tearing their hair out over a firm called Weald Farm Bees ... and they STILL have a website advertising bees for sale ~ a goggling does not throw up any immediate adverse comment until well down the page when you get directed to this forum's archives. Then there's 27 pages of salutary lessons to be learned .... You are right though, do a lot of research and preferably don't buy a pig in a poke ... or bees in a ?

 

[ultreen1]

Good advice if we're talking about a commercial supplier. But if it's a local experienced beekeeper selling you're unlikely to get a website or online reviews! And what they're supplying might be streets ahead of what you can get from a commercial operation.

An ordinary beekeeper should be willing to let you inspect the nuc in advance of purchase although logistically that might have to take place on a different day from the day of purchase.

Might be streets ahead!

I bet even the best bee supplier in the uk could sell a dud nuc/queen.

I'd hope that the ppl charging £200 for an overwintered nuc would have some sort of background and that the ppl paying £200 would look into that background...it's £200 not £20!

 

[ginny]

So then, what is a fair price for an overwintered colony plus hive in fair condition with a couple of supers?

 

[Chris B]

So then, what is a fair price for an overwintered colony plus hive in fair condition with a couple of supers?

£500.
I don't know if that's "fair" but that's what it would take to entice me to part with bees fitting that description. But then I'm in it for honey production not to sell bees.

 

[Easy Beesy]

[QUOTE An ordinary beekeeper should be willing to let you inspect the nuc in advance of purchase although logistically that might have to take place on a different day from the day of purchase.[/QUOTE]

I've always advised anyone who asks, to treat the purchase as if it were a pet - see the mother (colony); talk to the owner (beekeeper); see him handling his own colonies and visit the home location. If its too far to collect, buy closer to home so you can.

Eb

 

[Easy Beesy]

So then, what is a fair price for an overwintered colony plus hive in fair condition with a couple of supers?

As a well known advert says - Priceless!

 

[For want of a better word]

I've always advised anyone who asks, to treat the purchase as if it were a pet

To many they are !!!​

 

[Harley1]

I lost my bees over winter. It's the first time I've had no bees for five years. It wasnt until they were gone that I realised how much time I spent just watching and enjoying them. I miss them terribly and want to cry when I think of it, so for me it really is just like losing a pet.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll find a nuc for sale soon. I'm saving hard as I can see it's going to be expensive.

 

[VEG]

harley you lost all 3 hives?

 

[Harley1]

Yes. Things seemed to go wrong over and over again last summer. The bee inspector thought I might have missed a swarm and then the new Queen failed to get mated. I combined my two main hives, thinking a larger colony would winter better. Everything seemed perfect but they look to have failed to reach the stores availabe and starved. No activity around the top bar hive either. I haven't opened that up but they would have been flying now and again if they were there. A tap on the side usually gets a nice hum but there's silence.

I should have known it had been going too well the last few years. I obviously still have a lot more to learn.

 

[oliver90owner]

I obviously still have a lot more to learn.

We all keep learning new things about these little insects. The last year has been the worst in living history of beekeping, I would think without doubt (unless the winter of '63 was worse?). Winter losses are going to be higher for most of us, I would think. No point in beating yourself up; there will be more out there that are beeless and who started winter with more than two colonies.