Organic varrioa treatments

[Erichalfbee]

But they can't label their honey organic as there's no guarantee the bees only forage organically grown plants.

Yes. Not organic honey, no, but the keeping of the bees might be organic. That was my point.

 

[Curly green fingers]

Yes. Not organic honey, no, but the keeping of the bees might be organic. That was my point.

So what if you have an organic farm say 300 acre's or so an you plant organic broad beans as stock feed to feed your organic sheep . and your girls just work that crop wouldn't that then be organic honey ? Or would your farm have to be huge to compensate for the 2 km distance your bee's might fly to forage. I think I'm dragging this one out a bit .

 

[Curly green fingers]

I'm very interested in this as I've been trying to get my farther to go organic farming for decade's . the old walrus ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

I couldn’t do a circle but 2km squared is nearly 500 acres. You could plant that with sequential crops. No such place exists in the uk.

 

[Curly green fingers]

I couldn’t do a circle but 2km squared is nearly 500 acres. You could plant that with sequential crops. No such place exists in the uk.

One day there might be if more than one farmer had the idea to join together. For the same cause. Farming organically and beekeeping methods that were organic to sounds like a match made in heaven to me ..... Watch this space...

 

[MerryBee]

The extract from the Soil Association organic standards i posted earlier was just that an EXTRACT.
The part I posted was just the bit on treatments as that was the subject of the OP , but there is far more.

The whole of the standards was sent to me last week after an enquiry. They confirmed that there is no organic honey produced in the UK.

Mainly because of this I suppose

15.4.2
When you are siting your apiaries you must:
 place the hives on areas of land certified as organic
 ensure your bees have enough natural nectar, honeydew and pollen sources, and access to
water
 make sure nectar and pollen sources, within four miles of your apiary consist essentially of:
i.organic crops, and/or
ii. uncultivated areas with natural vegetation, and
iii. crops that have only been managed with low environmental impact methods (such as
those grown under methods equivalent to those described in Article 36 of EC regulation
1698/2005 and Article 22 of Council regulation 1257/1999) and which cannot significantly
affect the organic description of beekeeping, and
 keep them far enough from potential sources of contamination, such as urban centres,
motorways, industrial areas, waste dumps and waste incinerators.

So a radius of 4 miles from your apiary means (pi r squared) 50 square miles of organic/uncultivated vegetation. Not possible in the UK.

I will try and post a link to the full document if I can figure out how.

 

[MerryBee]

But they can't label their honey organic as there's no guarantee the bees only forage organically grown plants.

Or more correctly i think (sorry JBM), they cant label their honey organic because they are not accredited by an appropriate organisation (eg the Soil Association).

 

[MerryBee]

This is the link to the full relevant standards from the Soil Association.
The part on bees is section 15


https://www.soilassociation.org/media/1220/farming-and-growing-v17-4-august-2016.pdf

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So what if you have an organic farm say 300 acre's or so an you plant organic broad beans as stock feed to feed your organic sheep . and your girls just work that crop wouldn't that then be organic honey ? Or would your farm have to be huge to compensate for the 2 km distance your bee's might fly to forage. I think I'm dragging this one out a bit .

How could you prove that your bees only foraged that one crop?
bees at one of my apiaries fly five miles to the heather most years.
Even if each and every farm inside a ten mile radius was organic - could you guarantee that not one cottage gardener in that area used a non organic system of pest control or slathered some kind of chemical on his apple trees, roses or broad beans?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or more correctly i think (sorry JBM), they cant label their honey organic because they are not accredited by an appropriate organisation (eg the Soil Association).

Of which there is nowhere in the UK which can boast the parameters for this accreditation

 

[MerryBee]

Of which there is nowhere in the UK which can boast the parameters for this accreditation

Exactly.
I am splitting hairs, I know

 

[Curly green fingers]

How could you prove that your bees only foraged that one crop?
bees at one of my apiaries fly five miles to the heather most years.
Even if each and every farm inside a ten mile radius was organic - could you guarantee that not one cottage gardener in that area used a non organic system of pest control or slathered some kind of chemical on his apple trees, roses or broad beans?

The only answer then would be isolation and this country is to small for that. It sounds like some of you on here would love to produce 100% organic honey I think this battle will go on

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think this battle will go on

Are you up for turfing the peasants of the land, then ?

 

[mbc]

Of which there is nowhere in the UK which can boast the parameters for this accreditation

I'd read that some of the western Isles are considered organic for honey purposes.

 

[Swarm]

I thought Colonsay was, IIRC.

 

[Beefriendly]

Many of the Yorkshire heather moors are, but you need access to the more remote regions to ensure your 2/3 mile fly radius.

 

[Millet]

Many of the Yorkshire heather moors are, but you need access to the more remote regions to ensure your 2/3 mile fly radius.

I was watching a group harvesting heather two years ago in a remote spot on the dales and they where moving it with a helicopter, four builders bags at a time to load the waiting tractors and trailers, i think it was for some kind of biological filter system but i will not get all scientific ..which got me thinking that maybe a chopper could be put on your wish list..

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'd read that some of the western Isles are considered organic for honey purposes.

maybe, I don't know. Not much grows on St Kilda though

 

[Curly green fingers]

I'd read that some of the western Isles are considered organic for honey purposes.

It would go a long way if the estates in this country did the same . just imagine some of them are huge .

 

[Curly green fingers]

Thank you merrybee for the link I think I'll be reading books links til next Christmas about organic beekeeping . cheers mark