Not very satisfied!

[Poly Hive]

You seem to have an issue here icanhoppit so dinna be shy spit it out hmm you might feel a bit better with out the bile?

PH

 

[jezd]

Sorry to say Helen but in this instance what the BBKA say means nothing.

Bingo, the BBKA advice has nothing to do with this unless it was referenced during the transaction.

JD

 

[mbc]

so, who is the junk nuc supplier this time ?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Bingo, the BBKA advice has nothing to do with this unless it was referenced during the transaction.

JD

Except it shows what is a reasonable standard to expect -no not relevant to the contract but potentially helpful in times of dispute as a pointer.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

You have to consider the grounds of "reasonable expectation" here. In law it is not always a case of buyer beware.
If I buy a pair of shoes there is a reasonable expectation that the sale will include a pair of laces. It won't say so on the box or on a sign in the shop. Nor will I have to check with the shop assistant. Nor is there any legally defined standard for shoes that says laces must be included.
But, if I bought shoes and found that the laces weren't included, I'd have a pretty good case for recompense unless they explicitly told me they WEREN'T included.

The point being, a supplier can't just bung a load of half starving bees in a box then say "you never specified that you didn't want starving bees" when they receive complaints.

 

[theengraver]

The BBKA guide lines are only what should be the standard when doing the deal
not a lot of use after the fact
its like buying a lada and then going back a week later with the spec for a rolls royce to complain.
If the buyer can not be bothered to inspect before completeing the deal it there fault

would you buy house without having a good look round i?
Or would you just buy it?

 

[greatbritishhoney]

would you buy house without having a good look round i?
Or would you just buy it?

So, if I buy an ipod from amazon and it turns up without the headphones is it my fault for not driving to the depot to check they were in the box?

Again, reasonable expectation.

 

[bee ginnner]

£180 is the top end of the market price so i would expect rolls royce spec not a lada!! Polly might be right to say calm down a little but as a newbie myself i would like to know who to be at least a little wary of. though its a reminder to us all to find out first what we think we are buying.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Just for the record, I agree that buyers should inspect before buying and that they should be very clear about what they are getting, but I don't think not doing so should be an excuse for them getting ripped off.
I'm not necessarily saying that is what happened in this case. Just making a general point.

 

[For want of a better word]

You seem to have an issue here icanhoppit so dinna be shy spit it out hmm you might feel a bit better with out the bile?

PH

It seems that there are always going to be unscrupulous individuals who will exploit any situation for a quick buck, there always has been and there always will be. Let the buyer beware etc etc.
I hope that anyone with a modicum of interest in the art of beekeeping would find this forum, as it is an excellent source of information, all be it not peer reviewed.
What better place to discuss your successes and failiures than here, so that others may learn?
As in the school playground within this forum there are friends and unfortunately bullies too, I would hope I was of the former, however expect a curt answer from me if you need to make crass or personal remarks... particularly if aimed in my direction, I do not suffer fools gladly!
If a supplier has given excellent service tell the forum about it
Conversely if a supplier has underperformed what a better place to find out what is acceptable?
Perhaps some should climb down from their Ivory Towers every once in a while?

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

This forum would be nothing without the voluntary input of a dozen or so experienced hands. Others may post for entertainment only, but having unwarrented pops at people because you percieve their attitude to be somewhat haughty will ultimately be self defeating if they stop answering your questions.

 

[For want of a better word]

This forum would be nothing without the voluntary input of a dozen or so experienced hands. Others may post for entertainment only, but having unwarrented pops at people because you percieve their attitude to be somewhat haughty will ultimately be self defeating if they stop answering your questions.

Exactly

I totally agree

Now what was the question?

 

[drstitson]

whilst it may not have any true legal standing I'd imagine that the BBKA definition of a nuc would be the standard against which trading standards would judge an item if you presented them with a copy of the booklet (unless specifically advertised as significantly diverse).

the word car may mean bike in another country but in the UK one would expect to get a 4 (or possibly 3) wheeled motor vehicle when buying a car not a 2 wheeled self propelled vehicle.

 

[Poly Hive]

Now this is where it becomes a bit silly.

Trading standards told me that is was an equal offence in their eyes to over fill a jar by an ounce as to under fill by the same, the reason being over filling makes my jar more attractive to the consumer than the bang on the limit jar does, and the under of course is cheating the consumer.

So, given that position how does my 5 frames of brood stack up against the BBKA guidance. It would appear I am cheating the other sellers. But whose nuc would the buyer prefer? Three measly frames of brood and two of stores or five frames of brood and little stores but with the words of advice to feed?

Over to you.

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

Now this is where it becomes a bit silly.

Trading standards told me that is was an equal offence in their eyes to over fill a jar by an ounce as to under fill by the same, the reason being over filling makes my jar more attractive to the consumer than the bang on the limit jar does, and the under of course is cheating the consumer.

So, given that position how does my 5 frames of brood stack up against the BBKA guidance. It would appear I am cheating the other sellers. But whose nuc would the buyer prefer? Three measly frames of brood and two of stores or five frames of brood and little stores but with the words of advice to feed?

Over to you.

PH

Come Come PH

Quantifying brood amounts isn't as cut and dried and the exactitude of certified scales !
I think you are indulging in a gentle tugging of legs
Keep the ball rolling .

Talking about nucleus hives could enrage the bare footed having a gander at the thread .
John Wilkinson

 

[Poly Hive]

No scales needed. In my book five frames of brood out weighs (no pun) three.

However as I said TS don't see it that way so the BBKA "guidance" is dangerous.

PH

 

[jasonahood]

I guess if you personally picked up the nuc and accepted it as is, it would be covered by a verbal contract - ( if that's how it works? ) i.e. not much you can do.

If you ordered it online ( or over the phone ) and it was delivered to you, then your the laws governing mail order would come in to play and you could ask for your money back.

 

[Chris Luck]

Strange as it may seem I broadly agree with Poly on this one without really knowing what is there and what the terms were - though I would like to think there were some stores, a strong colony / nuc needs plenty of available nutrition.

Chris

 

[DanBee]

All this "make sure you check them before you accept them" is fine and good in principle, but what if you've driven half way across the country, say from Norwich to Gloucester? You're not going to want to pop over just to check them, then pop back a couple of days later to pick them up. Nor are you wanting to open them just before departing, as you'd have to wait until dusk to get your bees back into their box. The other aspect is, of course, that if you're a novice you can't reasonably expect to drag a more experienced beekeeper all that way to check for you - you'd be asking them to give up a whole day.

Seems to me the seller has a duty to ensure the product is up to the required spec. Clearly no long-term guarantees can be made, but if the colony was collected on the Friday, driven home, then inspected on the Saturday and found to be starving then it was not in a suitable state for sale.

 

[jimbeekeeper]

This is my first year with bees,

Then I realised what was available locally,

expensive

and found they had no stores at all - just empty comb where they had eaten all their stores.

I did expect

my understanding of buying a nucleus was that I could expect a queen with the first of her own progeny - but I have a nuc where the queen had been introduced just a few days before.

Do I have any grounds to grumble? Or is this par for the course?

I have not yet done a full inspection

Any comments appreciated.

Looking back at the OP, just look at some of the keep points I have picked out above.

There are lots of assumtions and expectations, but not much of the OP verification.

Would you buy a car with out testing it or even looking inside?

There is enough info out on the web for no real excuse of what not to look for when buying most things these days.