Newbie National hive set up question

[MonicaB]

Just alternate frames with foundation and those that they have started to build out that are foundationless. As long as they have a guide to work to they will usually build straight comb within the frames ... don't go destroying comb just because it is within a foundationless frame - bend it to near straight and put it back in. Make sure your frames are pushed up well together.

Ok thanks, I’ll let you know how I get on.

 

[enrico]

Ok thanks, I’ll let you know how I get on.

Just a quick tip on making up the frames. When you put the two bottom Bars on put the pin in from the bottom upwards. If you put it in from the side you can never take the bottom bar off to renew the wax, well not easily anyway!!

 

[pargyle]

Ok thanks, I’ll let you know how I get on.

I've been foundationless since I started keeping bees ... once you get to grips with it theres nothing to fear or hate about it ...I just have a triangular wedge of timber that I nail under the top bar after cutting off the bits needed to grip the foundation. Then I paint the wedge with melted beeswax ... rarely get mus shaped comb. I do the same in both brood and supers. The comb is sometimes a bit fatter and they build more drone comb but ... its what the bees want to do within the confines of my management... they seem to like it so who am I to argue with them ?

I run 14 x12 so I do wire the frames horizontally with two wires...

 

[Erichalfbee]

My 14x12 frames are wired thus

 

[enrico]

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying you shouldn't have such frames I was just explaining that a totally empty frame would probably not work. I remember how difficulty it was when I was starting beekeeping. If someone doesn't explain to you then how are you supposed to learn! I suggest a beginner should start with full foundation.

 

[MonicaB]

Just alternate frames with foundation and those that they have started to build out that are foundationless. As long as they have a guide to work to they will usually build straight comb within the frames ... don't go destroying comb just because it is within a foundationless frame - bend it to near straight and put it back in. Make sure your frames are pushed up well together.

That’s exactly what I did, I managed to separate the frames and alternated. All went well. I didn’t see the Queen and all was calm so
I’m pretty pleased. And relieved. Many thanks for the advice.

 

[MonicaB]

I have just made up some frames with foundation. I’ll swap and that I can get to. This is a very daunting task for me as a beginner, I’ve never seen the Queen I’ll have no idea where she is and I’m going to have to be extremely careful. With moving the frames and

Yes, I’ve just received a delivery of frames with foundation. So I’ll go on again this afternoon if the weather holds and swap some. I’m not sure I’ve got it in me to remove everything they’ve built and I’m nervous, first time moving things around near the Queen. Wish me luck and yes things are getting better. Thanks again

Ok Monica, I don't want to sound pushy but you need to put frames with foundation in the brood box at the earlies opportunity. As much as you want them to build wax in nice straight lines from the top bars of each frame they are highly unlikely to be that organised! They will build it anywhere at any angle. The reason it works in a top bar hive is that you give them a strip of wax on the top bar to guide them. There are none of this presumably on the foundation frames. Get working and put foundation in your frames and go swap them as soon as possible for the frames with no foundation. If you don't then you will be making more work for yourself. The secret is to keep it really simple otherwise they will have you in tears before you start!
If you need any other advice send me a private message if you want.
Keep smiling, at least you have bees which is more than some

Hi Enrico, I managed to go in and separate the frames, there was a lot of comb so I alternated the frames with foundation and preserved the comb they’ve made already. All went well and I’m very happy with the bees they were calm

 

[enrico]

Hi Enrico, I managed to go in and separate the frames, there was a lot of comb so I alternated the frames with foundation and preserved the comb they’ve made already. All went well and I’m very happy with the bees they were calm

Really well done, you will be a master beekeeper in no time!

 

[MonicaB]

Don't get me wrong. I wasn't saying you shouldn't have such frames I was just explaining that a totally empty frame would probably not work. I remember how difficulty it was when I was starting beekeeping. If someone doesn't explain to you then how are you supposed to learn! I suggest a beginner should start with full foundation.

Really well done, you will be a master beekeeper in no time!

couldn’t have done it without your support though tbh, the replies on this forum have given me confidence. You’re awesome!

 

[Erichalfbee]

couldn’t have done it without your support though tbh, the replies on this forum have given me confidence. You’re awesome!

Now you’ve done it!
He’ll be plugging his blog at every opportunity now

 

[MonicaB]

Now you’ve done it!
He’ll be plugging his blog at every opportunity now

Haha you’ll have to write one?

 

[thorn]

My preference for a book would always be Ted Hooper MBE 'Guide to Bees and Honey' as a must to dip into for somebody who already has experience of beekeeping though Enrico's suggestion above might be better for a complete novice.

I find it difficult to read because of the small size of the print in the 5th edition.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Haha you’ll have to write one?

I have already

 

[pargyle]

That’s exactly what I did, I managed to separate the frames and alternated. All went well. I didn’t see the Queen and all was calm so
I’m pretty pleased. And relieved. Many thanks for the advice.

Well done ... it's always a bit daunting when you start on this journey. Don't worry about how robust foundationless comb is - once they have filled the frame reasonably and the wax has had a bit of a chance to harden off and there's been a couple of brood cycles in there it's hard to differentiate between those frames with and those without foundation.

You will find that they tend to start out with a catenary shape and then gradually build down and out to the frame sides. Be a bit careful when the comb is new and only attached to the top bar and keep the frames vertical and you will be fine.

There's something wonderful about seeing the comb they build naturally when they are given the opportunity and there's two real positive aspects to being foundationless:

1. You save the cost of foundation.
2. You are not introducing recycled wax into your colonies with goodness only knows what in it.

Don't take a great deal of notice of those naysayers that will tell you that it takes XX lbs of honey for bees to build comb and that using foundation saves them some resources ... IMO it's a marginal amount they save and the speed they build free comb has to be seen to be believed.

Good luck.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread. Monica has listened and reacted to all the sugestions even tho the have been coming thick and fast.
Well done Monica and well done the rest of you

 

[user 819]

I'm another convert to F/L frames, have slowly started to move over to them from summer 2019. As older brood/super combs are reclaimed I clean and prep ready for new starter strip, I have quite a few packs in storage so should be good for along while now.
The bees decide on what cell size to build and where .