Newbie National hive set up question

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MonicaB 

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Last Wednesday I ended up installing a swarm into my new and unplanned National hive. (Unplanned because I’d set up and researched a top bar which I installed another swarm in the day before - which they then absconded from)

I installed the National with a framed super above the brood box and an empty super above that. I’ve now read that it’s better for the new colony to have less space and I need to remove the super. However I’ve also read not to disturb them for at least 7 days after they’ve moved in. So my question is do
I wait the 7 days before removing the super or is it more important to remove the super now?

Many thanks in advance
 

GuyNir 

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Removing the empty super above won’t disturb them much. Do it.
swarms are known to build wax quickly, last thing you want is them building wax in the empty super.
 

MonicaB 

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Removing the empty super above won’t disturb them much. Do it.
swarms are known to build wax quickly, last thing you want is them building wax in the empty super.
Ok thank you will do. Shall I leave the empty super on the brood box still as I’m feeding syrup from a jar above the crown board?
 

Horseradish 

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Hi there. I would remove the super and feed from the crown board directly above the brood box. Even if you plan to run "Brood and a half" (Brood+Super) I would let them fill out and draw the comb in the brood box first. Let them get established.
 

MonicaB 

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Hi there. I would remove the super and feed from the crown board directly above the brood box. Even if you plan to run "Brood and a half" (Brood+Super) I would let them fill out and draw the comb in the brood box first. Let them get established.
Thank you I’ve now removed the super. This is what they made in 5 days! I feel a bit bad now
 

Swarm 

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Swarms build wax at an astonishing rate, any stores in those combs can be fed back to them.
 

MonicaB 

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Swarms build wax at an astonishing rate, any stores in those combs can be fed back to them.
I must admit I was awestruck! I’ve placed it all back under the hive for them. Thank you
 

Swarm 

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How do you mean, under? An upturned container over a hole in the crown board would be a better option.
Never open feed as this enhances chance of spreading disease by attracting all sorts.
 

Gilberdyke John 

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How do you mean, under? An upturned container over a hole in the crown board would be a better option.
Never open feed as this enhances chance of spreading disease by attracting all sorts.
I find it staggering how otherwise sensible Beekeepers open feed and every sweet gathering insect for miles gathers to swap pathogens and parasites.
 

MonicaB 

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How do you mean, under? An upturned container over a hole in the crown board would be a better option.
Never open feed as this enhances chance of spreading disease by attracting all sorts.
Ah ok, I placed the comb I removed on a board under the hive. So it’s best if I place it on the crown board under an upturned container. Yes, I understand. Thanks very much.
 

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Yes, that's right. Think of feeding as sealing that food source within the hive, so only they can get at it. Your empty super can go on top of the crown board, around your feed container and the roof on top so it is all safe.
 

MonicaB 

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Yes, that's right. Think of feeding as sealing that food source within the hive, so only they can get at it. Your empty super can go on top of the crown board, around your feed container and the roof on top so it is all safe.
So I have the brood box, then an empty super then the crown board from which I’m feeding on. Then a second empty super and the roof. Is the super above the brood box ok there? Or will they still comb from the sides?
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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So I have the brood box, then an empty super then the crown board from which I’m feeding on. Then a second empty super and the roof. Is the super above the brood box ok there?
No, at the moment all you should have is the brood box, a full complement of frames and foundation, then the crown board with feeder (if needed on the crown board) you can use an empty super to go around the feeder
 

The Poot 

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No, it needs to be brood box, then crown board, on top of which is your feeder. Then place the empty super over it and add the roof.
Close off the second hole in the crown board so the bees only have access to the feeder.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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A super doesn't need to go on until all the frames are drawn and you have about seven to eight frames full of brood
 

MonicaB 

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Great! Thanks so much everyone. I need to remove the extra super above the brood box then I’m good. Thanks
 

MonicaB 

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No, at the moment all you should have is the brood box, a full complement of frames and foundation, then the crown board with feeder (if needed on the crown board) you can use an empty super to go around the feeder
[/QUOTE
A super doesn't need to go on until all the frames are drawn and you have about seven to eight frames full of brood
A super doesn't need to go on until all the frames are drawn and you have about seven to eight frames full of brood
Wow! Ok so seven to eight frames full of brood, and that leaves enough for nectar and pollen and honey then. If they run out of room would they swarm? I need to regularly check the brood pattern and combs as they’re drawn don’t I - I’m foundationless so that means more vigilance too - I don’t want to be in a situation where I can’t check the frames. I was going for a top bar which is what I researched so I’m having to learn fast! Very fast, faster than the bees which is impossible ;) I’m very grateful for the advice I’ve had.
 

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Wow! Ok so seven to eight frames full of brood, and that leaves enough for nectar and pollen and honey then. If they run out of room would they swarm? I need to regularly check the brood pattern and combs as they’re drawn don’t I - I’m foundationless so that means more vigilance too - I don’t want to be in a situation where I can’t check the frames. I was going for a top bar which is what I researched so I’m having to learn fast! Very fast, faster than the bees which is impossible ;) I’m very grateful for the advice I’ve had.
Yes. Weekly inspections.There’s quite a bit to beekeeping which is why we always recommend beginners join their local BKA , do a course at least and hopefully acquire a mentor.
 

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