New to Bees (Welwyn Garden City) Hertfordshire.

[Ashley Moore]

Hello everyone,

I’m Ashley, I found an absolute bargain online late last year. I purchased a complete hive with x2 honey boxes, frames complete, stand, suit and all other equipment to get started. Never ever been used. £30

I’m very new to Bees and hoping for some advice where to start? Lessons to do, clubs to join, Further equipment required etc.

I haven’t setup the hive yet due to winter, it’s currently sitting in storage but hoping to set it up April/May time.

All advice is welcomed. I’ve included a few images of what I have.

Thank you

 

[enrico]

That was a brilliant buy. Join the local beer keepers association and book a course for next year. It will give you some idea of what you ate letting yourself in for. It is a fun hobby but they are live animals so to speak and need to be treated properly. Buy a few good books. A very simple one is Bees at the bottom of the garden. But welcome anyway.

 

[ericbeaumont]

complete hive with x2 honey boxes

Welcome, Ashley.

Looks like you have a Smith hive in cedar (top quality, expensive) which is a top beespace hive with shorter frame lugs than the National. The lack of frame lug rebate (as necessary to allow for the long lugs of the National frame) results in shallow exterior hand-holds which make for awkward work when lifting heavy boxes.

The two boxes shown are brood boxes, so if that is all you have I suggest you prepare to buy honey supers - at least 3 - because a strong colony will use those two broods for the nest.

The bee brush and frame holder are particularly useless items: bees dislike hairy things and become agitated when caught in the hairs; use dry cow parsley or similar, or shake bees off frames.

The frame holder is another toy the suppliers sell to beginners and is a clumsy way to remove a frame. Keep your frame lugs reasonably clean during the season and learn to use the short lugs to pull frames from the box.

Best book for beginners:
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/...WJb-c5S1mjsBn6aDapntKqiOtLpgFqn8aAv2VEALw_wcB

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bs_smframes.html

https://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-...-assembled/smith-hive-complete-assembled.html

 

[Erichalfbee]

Welcome from me too. I was brought up in Welwyn Garden City

 

[Ashley Moore]

Welcome, Ashley.

Looks like you have a Smith hive in cedar (top quality, expensive) which is a top beespace hive with shorter frame lugs than the National. The lack of frame lug rebate (as necessary to allow for the long lugs of the National frame) results in shallow exterior hand-holds which make for awkward work when lifting heavy boxes.

The two boxes shown are brood boxes, so if that is all you have I suggest you prepare to buy honey supers - at least 3 - because a strong colony will use those two broods for the nest.

The bee brush and frame holder are particularly useless items: bees dislike hairy things and become agitated when caught in the hairs; use dry cow parsley or similar, or shake bees off frames.

The frame holder is another toy the suppliers sell to beginners and is a clumsy way to remove a frame. Keep your frame lugs reasonably clean during the season and learn to use the short lugs to pull frames from the box.

Best book for beginners:
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/...WJb-c5S1mjsBn6aDapntKqiOtLpgFqn8aAv2VEALw_wcB

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bs_smframes.html

https://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-...-assembled/smith-hive-complete-assembled.html

Thank you

 

[Ashley Moore]

Welcome, Ashley.

Looks like you have a Smith hive in cedar (top quality, expensive) which is a top beespace hive with shorter frame lugs than the National. The lack of frame lug rebate (as necessary to allow for the long lugs of the National frame) results in shallow exterior hand-holds which make for awkward work when lifting heavy boxes.

The two boxes shown are brood boxes, so if that is all you have I suggest you prepare to buy honey supers - at least 3 - because a strong colony will use those two broods for the nest.

The bee brush and frame holder are particularly useless items: bees dislike hairy things and become agitated when caught in the hairs; use dry cow parsley or similar, or shake bees off frames.

The frame holder is another toy the suppliers sell to beginners and is a clumsy way to remove a frame. Keep your frame lugs reasonably clean during the season and learn to use the short lugs to pull frames from the box.

Best book for beginners:
https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/...WJb-c5S1mjsBn6aDapntKqiOtLpgFqn8aAv2VEALw_wcB

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bs_smframes.html

https://www.thorne.co.uk/hives-and-...-assembled/smith-hive-complete-assembled.html

Thank you for reply, I got x1 brood box and x2 honey supers, the first pictures shown looks like two broods

 

[ericbeaumont]

got x1 brood box and x2 honey supers

QX you have is the best that can be had: wood-framed, jointed, made by Lega in Italy. Remember to use it upside down, not as in the photo, or you will end up up with double beespace between top bars and QX. If you give double beespace it will be filled readily with brace comb. You will need another, to swap during colony checks when you won't have the time to clean the first.

Frames were assembled incorrectly because the gimp pins have been driven vertically through the top bar into the side bar. Correct method is to put two pins, one either side, horizontally through the side bar into the top bar.

If you imagine trying to lever up a stuck frame covered in bees and heavy with honey on a hot day in June, you will understand that vertical pins may pull out and lead to loss of temper (yours and the bees). Avoid that by adding a gimp pin horizontally either side; buy only Challenge 20mm gimps and use a 4oz cross pein hammer to fit them.

Each box will hold 12 frames; you have 10 and bees will fill with comb any space other than the standard 8mm beespace. Each box will need a dummy board, a false wall to close off any gap remaining: The box will just hold twelve Hoffman frames. However they will be very tight and the recommendation is to use eleven frames plus a spaced dummy board.
https://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/TDS-number-6-smith-hive.pdf

Brood box: buy one more for colony expansion and another if your chosen swarm management technique is the standard Artificial Swarm; if you take that route, another stand, floor, crownboard, roof and set of frames will be needed. To save space, most of that kit and cash you could split vertically.

Supers: in a good year you will need four per colony, and even then may need to extract mid-season and give back the empties. Some colonies may need seven or more to accommodate a good flow. A lack of super space leads to congestion of brood areas with nectar, and as the queen will then have nowhere to lay, bees will swarm (you want to avoid that).

Flexibility in beekeeping is paramount and extra kit will give you management freedom, so gear up to spend once you have read the Haynes, done a beginners' course and got your head round the basics. You may recoup by selling your honey at top price, which will be easy, so don't fall into the trap of setting supermarket prices and giving it away.

Your local Seasonal Bee Inspector (contact details will be added in early season) is the very excellent Peter Folge, based North of you at Woolmer Green. Remember to register your apiary on Beebase.

PS: get a shed.

 

[Ashley Moore]

QX you have is the best that can be had: wood-framed, jointed, made by Lega in Italy. Remember to use it upside down, not as in the photo, or you will end up up with double beespace between top bars and QX. If you give double beespace it will be filled readily with brace comb. You will need another, to swap during colony checks when you won't have the time to clean the first.

Frames have been assembled incorrectly because the gimp pins have been driven vertically through the top bar into the side bar. Correct method is to put two pins, one either side, horizontally through the side bar into the top bar.

If you imagine trying to lever up a stuck frame covered in bees and heavy with honey on a hot day in June, you will understand that vertical pins may pull out and lead to loss of temper (yours and the bees). Avoid that by adding a gimp pin horizontally either side; buy only Challenge 20mm gimps and use a 4oz cross pein hammer to fit them.

Each box will hold 12 frames; you have 10 and bees will fill with comb any space other than the standard 8mm beespace. Each box will need a dummy board, a false wall to close off any gap remaining: The box will just hold twelve Hoffman frames. However they will be very tight and the recommendation is to use eleven frames plus a spaced dummy board.
https://scottishbeekeepers.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/TDS-number-6-smith-hive.pdf

Brood box: buy one more for colony expansion and another if your chosen swarm management technique is the standard Artificial Swarm; if you take that route, another stand, floor, crownboard, roof and set of frames will be needed. To save space, most of that kit and cash you could split vertically.

Supers: in a good year you will need four per colony, and even then may need to extract mid-season and give back the empties. Some colonies may need seven or more to accommodate a good flow. A lack of super space leads to congestion of brood areas with nectar, and as the queen will then have nowhere to lay, bees will swarm (you want to avoid that).

Flexibility in beekeeping is paramount and extra kit will give you management freedom, so gear up to spend once you have read the Haynes, done a beginners' course and got your head round the basics. You may recoup by selling your honey at top price, which will be easy, so don't fall into the trap of setting supermarket prices and giving it away.

Your local Seasonal Bee Inspector (contact details will be added in early season) is the very excellent Peter Folge, based North of you at Woolmer Green. Remember to register your apiary on Beebase.

PS: get a shed.

Thank you for all this information,

I will take it all onboard before the hive is in use.

 

[Penninetrader]

Having read these replies I imagine he is arranging an appointment with his banks loans dept. Sounds expensive, :}

 

[Do224]

Hello everyone,

I’m Ashley, I found an absolute bargain online late last year. I purchased a complete hive with x2 honey boxes, frames complete, stand, suit and all other equipment to get started. Never ever been used. £30

I’m very new to Bees and hoping for some advice where to start? Lessons to do, clubs to join, Further equipment required etc.

I haven’t setup the hive yet due to winter, it’s currently sitting in storage but hoping to set it up April/May time.

All advice is welcomed. I’ve included a few images of what I have.

Thank you

View attachment 41916

View attachment 41917


View attachment 41918

If you’re on a tight budget, have a search on the forum for ‘swarm traps’ or ‘bait hives’. Once you’ve done a practical beginners course and you’re looking to get some bees this might be a good way of getting them (although if your club is any good then they’ll hopefully set you up with your first colony).

I think the main downside of catching ‘free bees’ in swarm traps is that you don’t know their temperament or disease status. But catching swarms has really helped me as a beginner…if I’d spent £300 on my first colony and then lost them due to inexperience or bad luck I may not have continued with the hobby….and if I’d then spent another £300 on a replacement colony and lost that too it really would have been disheartening. I think this happens to a lot of new beekeepers who then give up quite quickly

 

[Ashley Moore]

If you’re on a tight budget, have a search on the forum for ‘swarm traps’ or ‘bait hives’. Once you’ve done a practical beginners course and you’re looking to get some bees this might be a good way of getting them (although if your club is any good then they’ll hopefully set you up with your first colony).

I think the main downside of catching ‘free bees’ in swarm traps is that you don’t know their temperament or disease status. But catching swarms has really helped me as a beginner…if I’d spent £300 on my first colony and then lost them due to inexperience or bad luck I may not have continued with the hobby….and if I’d then spent another £300 on a replacement colony and lost that too it really would have been disheartening. I think this happens to a lot of new beekeepers who then give up quite quickly

I understand, I have a friend who has two hives, one is brought the other was a swarm catch (bit more aggressive temperament) he will help me out getting started.

 

[pargyle]

You got an absolute bargain ... I agree with everything said above with one caveat. The Smith Hive is not a very common hive outside of Scotland - in England the popular format is National either standard or 14 x 12. Whilst the Smith hive has the same internal dimensions the frames are different and not compatible with nationals and the external dimensions of the smith hive are different.

So.. to consider:

1. National kit is much cheaper to buy, Langstroth is a better format but less common.
2. If you buy in bees on frames, or have them donated on frames, the chances are they will be on national frames which won't fit your hive.
3. Once you start beekeeping you need to have matched kit - there is nothing more annoying than having to cope with different size boxes and frames. If you start with Smiths then you have to continue with Smiths.
4. If your next boxes are not Smiths then you can't easily swap between the two formats.

I really don't like to say this but I would be inclined to re-sell the hive boxes and frames - new they are over £500 so you should get a large chunk of that back and spend it on some national kit in the beekeeping sales. Your Smith kit will be worth less once you have put some bees in it and it is used, better to make the change before you start beekeeping.

Oh ... and welcome to the wonderful world of beekeeping.

 

[Do224]

I really don't like to say this but I would be inclined to re-sell the hive boxes and frames - new they are over £500 so you should get a large chunk of that back and spend it on some national kit in the beekeeping sales. Your Smith kit will be worth less once you have put some bees in it and it is used, better to make the change before you start beekeeping.

That’s a good idea

 

[ericbeaumont]

If you buy in bees on frames, or have them donated on frames, the chances are they will be on national frames which won't fit your hive.

True, but saw the frame lugs short and the rest of the frame is identical to National.

start with Smiths then you have to continue with Smiths.

True: nothing more likely to waste time and energy than having multiple hive formats.

inclined to re-sell the hive boxes and frames

Good option. As the kit is Western red cedar - not English, which would be knotty - it is top quality and you should get 50-70% of retail. Give the hive a wash in hot washing soda water to get rid of the green mould, and store the lot under cover until you decide to sell or use.

Bear in mind that you're unlikely to manage one colony in perpetuity, so any further Smith hives will be expensive, though the Caddon Smith is a good price for WRC (£225 assembled) and Caddon have reduced prices on Smith parts (likely to boost winter cashflow).

 

[ericbeaumont]

advice where to start

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