Need for oxalic treatment?

[B+.]

Not found that to be so here.

My colonies have very low mite levels too

 

[B+.]

It's about time we had a new, ground breaking treatment method.

Will one of these do?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garden-Di...hash=item542c65a9a4:m:m1xTzAwggINsRIpV2SDFs3g

 

[Beefriendly]

Not found that

If you don't vape/trickle midwinter you won't find out.

 

[Hivemaker.]

If you don't vape/trickle midwinter you won't find out.

I did find out, twice over the last 26 years since varroa arrived, not needed, and not good results.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It would seem that a midwinter treatment (vaping or trickling) is essential,

Not found that to be so here.

My colonies have very low mite levels too

Only apiary I thought I'd vape just in case is one I had problems last spring due, I suspect to more than one donothing beekeeper in the near vicinity

 

[mbc]

It's about time we had a new, ground breaking treatment method.

Well, I've been turning the cogs trying to decide whether to do a winter vape or trickle or save my powder till later. Currently my bees are pretty clean following an autumn ox/gly treatment (https://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38743) and I've decided on option three, saving my powder, reason being they've few mites now and a trickle or vape would be almost pointless if I treat later plus a spring ox/gly strip or two will mop up any incoming mites from collapsing colonies and should set the bees right varroa wise until autumn.
It's a ground breaking method for me and my bees for sure.

 

[fatshark]

Ground breaking if it works ...
I certainly think a more creative approach to how and when we treat, coupled with a better understanding of the benefits (and timing) of engineered brood breaks - splits etc - is needed.
And not in isolation either ... but related to what's happening in the hive.
The strategy of treat once after the summer honey comes off and once in midwinter has no reference to the state of the colony - honey harvest might not be until the end of September and 'midwinter' appears to be anytime between late November and late January. Alternatively, treating in late August and early December might be preferable in protecting winter bees and properly coordinated with a broodless period respectively.
I'm not aware that this has ever been done properly. Randy Oliver has done bits, LASI has tried, individuals undoubtedly have more insights ... but nothing really comprehensive. Nothing scientific. Nothing properly documented.

Of course, even if we had a really effective and rational strategy for Varroa control there would still be people who wouldn't use it ... to the detriment of all. The treatment free brigade, the forgetful, the "yes I'm a beekeeper but I haven't bothered to look in the hive this year" and the plain bloodyminded who refuse to follow the best recommended advice.

Let us know how the early season strips work ... a non-inhibitory treatment (soft chemicals) used during natural or engineered brood breaks makes a lot of sense.

 

[mbc]

And not in isolation either ... but related to what's happening in the hive.

Let us know how the early season strips work ... a non-inhibitory treatment (soft chemicals) used during natural or engineered brood breaks makes a lot of sense.

I think it's important to think about what's happening outside the hive too, when is reinvasion from collapsing colonies most likely?
The biggest downside to one off (or even three to five, three to five days apart ) oav or trickle treatments is that they don't catch the constant day to day addition of mites from collapsing colonies that can happen at any time in the season but are most prevalent spring and autumn.
Ox/gly worked like magic last spring for me so fingers crossed it wasn't a fluke and it does the trick again. I've every confidence.

 

[fatshark]

Mangum's data shows re-infestation from drifters/robbers is most prevalent during a nectar dearth, particularly late summer. All that's well-documented. He showed - using some neat studies - that something like 10-75 mites per day could be acquired by a hive in this way.

per day!

The one thing missing from his studies is an indication of how close/distant the source of the robbers/drifters was.

 

[mbc]

Mangum's data shows re-infestation from drifters/robbers is most prevalent during a nectar dearth, particularly late summer. All that's well-documented. He showed - using some neat studies - that something like 10-75 mites per day could be acquired by a hive in this way.

per day!

The one thing missing from his studies is an indication of how close/distant the source of the robbers/drifters was.

Interesting, link?
My presumption was most mites would travel as colonies are collapsing late spring and in the autumn.

 

[fatshark]

Cited here: http://theapiarist.org/the-drifters/

I may have mixed up the Mangum numbers and the Greatti numbers at the bottom of the page. Whatever, the studies show pretty much the same thing.

One US, one European, but no reason not to think the broad principles apply here as well.

 

[madasafish]

Cited here: http://theapiarist.org/the-drifters/

I may have mixed up the Mangum numbers and the Greatti numbers at the bottom of the page. Whatever, the studies show pretty much the same thing.

One US, one European, but no reason not to think the broad principles apply here as well.

Drifting certainly explains the marked (As in queen marking practise) drones I found in one hive - which coincidentally(?) had an abnormally high mite count two months later- the only hive out of eight where mite highs were seen...

 

[Beefriendly]

Another possibility is transfer of varroa from bee to flower (not yet shown) and then from flower to bee (shown by Peck et al.). With a nectar dearth there will be many bees from different sites competing for the little nectar that is available; an ideal opportunity for varroa to spread from heavily infested untreated colonies.
The bit I fail to understand is where are all these colonies that are getting robbed out? Seems there must be lots of them given the figures put to the incoming varroa from outside the hive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bit I fail to understand is where are all these colonies that are getting robbed out? Seems there must be lots of them given the figures put to the incoming varroa from outside the hive.

I can tell you there are lots here.
Here is one instance.
Three quarters of a mile from me, on my running route, is a line of hives along a hedge. I look at them frequently. There are ten boxes there, in the summer there are often a few more. This year, particularly, in September on the sunniest days there was activity only from four whereas all had been flying well at the beginning of August. They are in a field belonging to a fellow English couple who say the hives are run by a "bee farmer" who visits them three or four times a year.

Another.
A friend of mine had let a corner of one of his pastures to a beekeeper. He himself then decided to keep bees and lost them to varroa two years running. I asked him about the hives in his field and he told me a chap comes once or twice a year to take honey. I told him to get them off his land and his bees have been fine since.
Just a demonstration of what can happen

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can tell you there are lots here.
Here is one instance.
Three quarters of a mile from me, on my running route, is a line of hives along a hedge. I look at them frequently. There are ten boxes there, in the summer there are often a few more. This year, particularly, in September on the sunniest days there was activity only from four whereas all had been flying well at the beginning of August. They are in a field belonging to a fellow English couple who say the hives are run by a "bee farmer" who visits them three or four times a year.

Another.
A friend of mine had let a corner of one of his pastures to a beekeeper. He himself then decided to keep bees and lost them to varroa two years running. I asked him about the hives in his field and he told me a chap comes once or twice a year to take honey. I told him to get them off his land and his bees have been fine since.
Just a demonstration of what can happen

Hmm - our association feral beekeeper has hives dotted around Ceredig's country - I thought they were more down Cenarth way though

 

[fatshark]

There are 15-20 'abandoned' hives within a mile of one of my apiaries that I know about. Some attract swarms every year.

The ones I have access to are mysteriously stuffed closed with grass ;-)

Beekeeper density (beekeepers per square mile, not how stupid some of them are ;-) ) is ~1/10th here in Fife what it was where I lived in the Midlands. Varroa problems are correspondingly much less ... though this could also be attributed to a longer broodless period in midwinter.

 

[fatshark]

Drifting certainly explains the marked (As in queen marking practise) drones I found in one hive - which coincidentally(?) had an abnormally high mite count two months later- the only hive out of eight where mite highs were seen...

Seeley has data showing something like 37% of drones were reared in a different hive to the one they were found in.

Workers is something like 10-45%.

All based on microsatellite analysis.

 

[Beefriendly]

Seeley has data showing something like 37%

IIRC one of those papers you mentioned used drone excluder's on some of the hives and concluded that drifting of drones (or not in this case) made little difference to the seen increase in varroa.

 

[fatshark]

Dunno ... just commenting on how drones move about.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Dunno ... just commenting on how drones move about.

They certainly move around a lot within the same apiary here, but not seen any turning up in surrounding apiaries, even apiaries only three quarters of a mile away.