Nature, Legislation and Angels

As I just explained in a post, I would like to continue in this new one the deviation that was caused in the main post.
The title refers to nature, law and angels. The reason is to answer about.
Wild swarms and their status within beekeeping legislation.
and the angels?

 

[Erichalfbee]

In the UK there is no legislation covering swarms. Do you mean bees living away from beekeeper management?
There's no legislation covering those either

 

[fian]

In the UK there is no legislation covering swarms. Do you mean bees living away from beekeeper management?
There's no legislation covering those either

In Spain the ownership of an outgoing swarm is established.
This is how it is stated that the owner of the hive from which it came out can persecute it (compensating for the damages caused in its search), if it decides not to persecute it after 2 days and a claim period of 20, the property will revert to the owner of the hive. the estate on which it is based. Whether or not he is a beekeeper, the person responsible for its management is the owner of the farm. Thus, a wild swarm for legal purposes will be one that settles on public property or with a protected status.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A swarm in a public place can be taken by whoever gets there first, but a bee swarm on private property can only be taken with the permission of the owner of the property. This convention is rooted in the old common law of property and the ownership of chattels.

Lots here
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/swarm-ownership-law.5458/

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But more to the point - how many angels can actually dance on the head of a pin?

 

[fian]

A swarm in a public place can be taken by whoever gets there first, but a bee swarm on private property can only be taken with the permission of the owner of the property. This convention is rooted in the old common law of property and the ownership of chattels.

Lots here
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/swarm-ownership-law.5458/

This means that in the UK there is no chance of a wild swarm as it can be picked up by someone (usually a concerned beekeeper).

 

[Erichalfbee]

This means that in the UK there is no chance of a wild swarm as it can be picked up by someone (usually a concerned beekeeper).

Oh I dont think so. I’m sure the majority of swarms are not caught but disappear.

 

[Erichalfbee]

But more to the point - how many angels can actually dance on the head of a pin?

Only Aziraphale can dance upon a pin's head because he knows gavotte.

 

[fian]

Oh I dont think so. I’m sure the majority of swarms are not caught but disappear.

But has any study been done on his situation? otherwise it would be like going blind

 

[Erichalfbee]

You want peer reviewed scientific evidence?

 

[Beesnaturally]

But has any study been done on his situation? otherwise it would be like going blind

Numerous studies. My suggestion is you carefully watch the video that started this conversation, then watch it again this time taking notes. I don't mean to be rude, but you are a long long way behind the curve on this topic, and that will be as good a place as any to start. It can be found here:

 

[Beesnaturally]

Here you can find the author's credentials and locate the studies she has made in this field:

https://www.universityofgalway.ie/our-research/people/natural-sciences/gracemccormack/#
What this tells you is: she is a deeply informed scientist, who will speak carefully. Listen to her words carefully, and treat them as trustworthy.

These are her research interests:

"My group are interested in evolution. We explore evolutionary relationships at different taxonomic levels and in different organisms. The main projects currently running in the lab are focused on the evolution of marine sponges and honeybees."​

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I didn't realise that sponges swarmed

 

[fian]

You want peer reviewed scientific evidence?

I am not asking for scientific evidence, but surveys have been carried out in local associations with questions such as.
In the current year, have you lost or picked up any swarms?
Not only as research but as information for further training, perhaps it would not be useful to carry out small practical classes (Demare, Treatment etc) at affordable prices as a win-win.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Two swarms into a bait hive. They are both alive at present. One lot is our typical local be with an orange stripe or two. The bees of the other colony look little ( I haven’t measured them) and dark. No orange.
Lost one this year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think the key word she uses is 'we don't know' she accepts that many of those colonies are from bees swarmed from maintained colonies, not 'wild' in the true sense of the word which is why she's made up the word 'free flying' And in just the first five minutes of her talk she plainly demonstrates which way her bias is leaning towards.
Interesting all the same.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I think the key word she uses is 'we don't know' she accepts that many of those colonies are from bees swarmed from maintained colonies, not 'wild' in the true sense of the word which is why she's made up the word 'free flying' And in just the first five minutes of her talk she plainly demonstrates which way her bias is leaning towards.
Interesting all the same.

I think what attracts many to ‘wild bees’ is that they survive TF.
I know the bees in my tree box don’t. They usually last a couple of years before the colony collapses. I don’t know about any others but I suppose they must be out there.

 

[JamezF]

I’m sure the majority of swarms are not caught but disappear.

My gut feeling also. My experience is that swarms get collected when they're somewhere convenient for the beekeeper (but not always) or if they turn up somewhere that's a nuisance for someone else (if the someone else is lucky). If a swarm opts to bivouac fifteen metres up in a tree I bet most beekeepers would probably opt to leave well alone and most non-beekeepers may well never notice they were there to tell anyone about them in the first place.

It does make me wonder though... Perhaps I should speak to people in areas where I actually collect swarms and suggest leaving a bait hive in someone's garden to collect any future swarms that can then be taken away easily (they phone me immediately they notice the hive being used and I turn up and take it away that evening, replacing it with another). I feel sure that if one swarm bivouacs in a given area then others are likely to follow either very shortly afterwards or in subsequent years and it's a damn sight easier than trying to persuade them out of a thick hedge (for instance).

James

 

[JamezF]

I know the bees in my tree box don’t. They usually last a couple of years before the colony collapses. I don’t know about any others but I suppose they must be out there.

Do they swarm though? If so, perhaps from a "genetic continuity" point of view that counts as a success.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do they swarm though? If so, perhaps from a "genetic continuity" point of view that counts as a success.

James

Yes they do.
I had one this year
In April 2018 they issued this. I saw it leave the box and collect on the flowering plum.


View attachment trim.4C3C9A5D-3A9F-47E6-99EB-D4FB53825AED.MOV

I made a nuc up for them.