Natural or Unmanaged?

[DanBee]

So is chicken in a basket a type of 'natural' poultry farming?

Chicken in a bucket is most probably not

 

[Dishmop]

I personally do not offer training courses - but thanks for the hint.

May I therefore ask what you do do? and do the DIY sun hive makers get any tuition on beekeeping?

 

[PBee]

Chicken in a bucket is most probably not

That's fowl!

 

[sunhivebee]

May I therefore ask what you do do? and do the DIY sun hive makers get any tuition on beekeeping?

Of course you may ask: I keep bees

Do the sun hive makers get any tuition? Do you mean like people who get a poly hive or a Langsrtroth? Tuition included?
Best ask the organisers.

 

[Dishmop]

Do you mean like people who get a poly hive or a Langsrtroth?

point taken but those people find local associations where they learn how to keep bees in a hive of the type they have bought which has frames, etc., and are unlikely to find out much within that group about how to keep bees in a basket.

Best ask the organisers.

Seems odd that somebody who on the face of it seems to have been instrumental in the introduction of the sun hive to the UK, after having gone to lengths to contacted the designer, and who "has inspired beekeepers across the world." and "gives talks and runs workshops for like-minded enthusiasts." although doesnt seem to be very aware of what is going on.
I would have thought that with you being a trustee and co-founder of the Natural Beekeeping Trust that you would be a little bit more knowledgable about what is happening within the trust and/or the college as opposed to just keeping bees.
I read somewhere that the first type of skeps and clay hives used to get pulled apart or smashed, often killing the bees in the process, to allow access to the honey. There was also the method by which the bees were "encouraged" to leave the hive by banging it with a stick, but we have, over the years developed various designs of hive that allow harvesting of some of the honey without having to resort to ripping hives apart because somebody thought of using frames.
No form of beekeeping is natural nor ever has been or ever will be. Your sun hives are only that much different inasmuch as they are a different shape. They have frames. They can be inspected, therefore they are managed. What they are not is "natural"

 

[DanBee]

Response to DanBee
You: I wouldn't view the two events as cause and effect. The pesticides endorsement was a thorn in the BBKA's side long before then. I have explained previously here how this came about and that the people involved are all long resigned/retired from the BBKA hierarchy. Martin chooses not to listen because it suits his campaign - for instance he loves to slur Tim Lovett but the man wasn't on the scene when this happened, and was part of the Exec that exited an inherited commercial agreement at the earliest opportunity whilst incurring neither animosity nor cost.
My response: Thank you for these explanations. You will appreciate that the Bayer deals over many years did nothing to enhance the conservation angle of the BBKA

The pesticides endorsement was a major PR shot in the foot, but it did not affect the conservation that ordinary beekeepers and/or the BBKA were involved in. It has been a big stick with which antis have been beating the BBKA for years, with hindsight it was naive. I have personally spoken about this to two of the people who inherited the endorsement agreement when joining the BBKA Exec.

Be clear about the endorsement: the pesticides had already passed regulatory testing and approval as 'not harmful to honeybees' when used according to application instructions. This was printed on the packaging, MSDS, instructions, etc. The BBKA earned money for such already-approved pesticides to include their logo on packaging and instructions. The intention was to give farmers a quick visual indication of those pesticides considered by the regulatory authorities to be 'not harmful to honeybees', to reduce cases of accidental poisoning through mis-use or lack of awareness. The BBKA did not test, or make or revise any recommendations relating to safety or application of products, they left this to the regulatory body as the experts in this field.

It was thus an attempt to raise extra income from a tie-in with the agricultural sector, in much the same way as a similar thing was done with New Holland recently.

Let us not get into a tedious discussion of whether insecticides kill insects, please. The answer is: yes they do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiherrmann
"but the sad fact remains that notwithstanding the many thousand decent and experienced beekeepers affiliated to the organisation the official teaching agenda still encompasses a staggering variety of husbandry advice which i.m.h.o is inimical to the welfare as well as recovery of the bee population."
You: Wrong again. I am an examiner, and also an author of some of the teaching materials you refer to here (and elsewhere recently in a similar vein). It may suit you to state that the BBKA teaches swarm suppression, etc., but it does not. The examiner's mantra is that if the student can demonstrate and explain an appropriate and successful method, it is accepted even if it is not a common method. This comes up every time swarm control is discussed, for instance - and anyone who performs the swarm suppression by queen cell knock-down (that you believe is taught) will fail. From the General Husbandry certificate upwards, candidate are required to be familiar with and demonstrate a number of approaches to common situations, even if they do not use them themselves, so that they can assist or advise others who do. This is not the blinkered system that you imply
My response: Your words entirely. I referred to a 22 mins instruction in wing clipping. To may people's minds clipping the wings of a queen be is crazy, nor does it, as I have seen on may occasions, prevent swarming.

You frequently refer to swarm suppression here.

Where does the 22 mins come from? Course in a Case has a couple of 30-second to 5 minute videos on handling, clipping, and marking queens. Perhaps you are thinking of older materials?

Clipping wings does not prevent swarming. It is not taught as that. If a queen with clipped wings is lost in an attempted swarm, the colony will continue to swarm approx. six days later when the first virgin emerges.

The value to beekeepers of clipping is that it allows for 9-10 day inspection cycles in swarming season, as opposed to 7 day for unclipped. This is to allow beekeepers time to see swarm preparations and intervene before departure.

The acknowledged method for dealing with a swarming colony is to perform some form of artificial swarm. This bears little functional difference to catching and then re-housing a swarm after emergence. Nobody competent sees (or teaches) repeated queen cell knock-down as a viable or credible form of swarm control.

Your dismissal of conventional swarm management, and labelling as suppression, paints you as ignorant. I will willingly accept that this may in part be a subtlety of the language - if so I would strongly advise you to stop using the word 'suppression'.

You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiherrmann
As the BBKA teaching agenda moves to a greater emphasis on beekeeping as conservation
I don't know where you get this from, the implication being that beekeepers and the BBKA in particular have been uninterested in conservation. Clearly beekeepers have been providing an environmental service for centuries without shouting about it...

I said the BBKA, not beekeepers in general, and as stated above, getting sponsored by pesticide manufacrurers is a sure-fire way to lose your conservation credentials

Please don't descend to hollow mud-slinging. Apart from negative PR, how has this adversely affected practical conservation activities?

You:
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidiherrmann
as I gained experience I gradually removed myself, as Bayvarol treatments, autumn harvests of every drop of honey as well as queen clipping became the new religion.
To replace it with the religion of biodynamics? Bayvarol treatments became the norm in response to huge colony die-offs over the winters of '96 and '97, as varroa started to bite. Bayvarol & Apistan prevented a catastrophic loss in honeybee numbers, allowing time for others to investigate 'softer' treatments. I wouldn't have anticipated such an outcome if our preferred varroa treatment had been to sprinkle the ashes of burnt mites over the colonies to teach the mites that they are not welcome... at most it would have been as (in)effective as icing sugar dusting provided the ash were fine enough.

My response: In case you were not aware, biodynamics is the oldest form of organic agriculture, not a religion. Bayvarol produced resistant mites - something I foresaw, any anyone could have foreseen, and the BBKA certainly should have foreseen. They did not. I stopped using it against the exhortations of my then bee inspector and chose oxalic acid evaporation instead, when it was still illegal here, but used in Germany, I am going into this kind of detail to demonstrate to you, that contrary to what you may think, I consider my actions carefully, and find that some of them are just a little ahead of their time. No-treatment will become the norm in times to come, because nobody will consider it intelligent to be on a treatment treadmill FOREVER. Not treating one's bees requires complementary measures which many are not yet prepared to consider.

Biodynamics - as regards beekeeping - is myth and mysticism. Steiner contorted his observations of bees to fit his pre-conceived theories, e.g. the fertility of a queen resulting from her encapsulating the sun's life-giving energies having emerged fully grown in less than one 21-day solar rotation; the worker being sterile because she has developed in exactly one solar rotation. Nothing to do with presence and development of ovaries, spermatheca, and other mating organs? What about the assertion that quartz crystals - being six sided like honeycomb cells - embody a fundamental energy/vibration essential to bees, hence the placing of such crystals in or around beehives?

I'm not saying that all of biodynamics is bunkum, but how Steiner tried to apply it to beekeeping most definitely is. The sad thing is that if he had been aware of pheromones, viruses, and honeybee anatomy, he may have made some genuinely useful philosophical contributions. But he didn't. Bear in mind that Steiner was delivering his famous lectures on bees at the same time as Snodgrass published the precursor to his definitive Honeybee Anatomy, and Snodgrass was not the first to look inside a honeybee under a microscope. Whilst the identification of pheromones would take another 30 years, there was plenty of observational 'folklore' in beekeeping relating to sensitivity to smells, some of which humans could not detect - e.g. the scent of fear. He could have built upon this but did not.

I do however try to migrate colonies when there is a full moon - it allows me to see without using a torch

Zero treatment - this requires everyone to sign-up, and to accept the losses, year after year, or it is ineffective. This is as much a people-skills exercise as a husbandry exercise. True, we will be left with a population that resists or tolerates varroa and the viruses it spreads, but at what cost, both to bees and to pollination? Given the total lack of adaptation to the parasite, initial survival is likely to be due to pure chance rather than genetic fitness. What genetic diversity, what traits and strengths will be lost wholesale in this? Estimates will be that well over 90% of colonies would be lost, and nobody has any evidence to say whether the emergence of survival traits would take 5, 50, or 500 years. In the meantime, zero treatment risks simply being a varroa burden for surrounding colonies.

You: Autumn harvests have always been the norm. What's changed is that it isn't viable to put supers on in April and then return to take them off in August - some intervention in between is now required.

My response: What has changed is that the bees are knackered by all sorts of human-caused degradation and need to be treated differently if we want them to stay around.

Which "human-caused degradations" are you thinking of?

You:
Who takes every drop of honey? Gross caricature again; perhaps you have been watching too many documentaries on US or Chinese factory beekeeping

My response: I consider that quite a rude insinuation. Firstly, I do not watch television, secondly, I have attended many meetings where virtually every drop of honey was taken, and I frequently hear from beekeeping students that they still witness such actions . Did I say everyone takes every drop of honey? No I did not.

But your implication was that this is commonplace in "non-natural" beekeeping. Be careful that your anecdotes and recollections aren't clouded by idealism or the passing of time; we take the surplus crop, not the whole crop as many others have pointed out. To take every drop would involve extracting even the brood combs to get the stores around the brood nest - which is why I mentioned the Chinese factory beekeeping methods as videos on Youtube testify. Not a UK practice!

It would be just as easy to caricature every "natural" beekeeper as exhibiting the worst extremes of the spectrum, but you would not take kindly to that, I suspect. Consider how we feel.

You: As I have said many times before, commercial beekeeping practice in other parts of the world is far removed from that which occurs in the UK - just as their scale and model of agriculture, which to a degree defines the approach to beekeeping - is far removed from ours.

My response: Should we be proud of the fact we don't engage in the travesty of US style almond pollination and associatied bee abuse?

Apart from the overly emotive language, I don't understand what your point is. Please clarify

You: I'm genuinely happy for you that you think your methods are so appealing and successful, but please check your facts before making pronouncements, and please do not use fictitious bogey-men in support of your case

My response: "My methods appeal to my bees, and I certainly do not expect that they should appeal to you, Finally, please note that I have desisted from referring to any of your statements as "rubbish", firstly, because uncouth rudeness is not my style, and secondly, to demonstrate how to remain calm and collected under provocation. I fully understand that some of my views provoke you, but this should not stop us from talking politely with each other. How about a talk-show some time in the future, should the media remain interested in beekeepers' viewpoints?

Best wishes
Heidi

Do you not understand that your position, wording, and emotive text distances you from so many conventional beekeepers - all of whom share a degree of care for the natural world around them? So many of your comparisons and justifications come across as negative or critical - if you do not see this then please look again. You frequently talk convincingly but from a position of apparent ignorance.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to improve your understanding of conventional beekeeping practice, the care that conventional beekeepers have for their bees, and to put aside some of the more extreme caricatures that undermine your credibility. Depends if you want to listen and discuss, or duck and run

A talk show? Yes, I have been invited to speak at the Spring Convention. I could ask that the topic be changed to a Q&A session. I would happily sit alongside you and we can each give our perspectives on questions from an audience of beekeepers. However my concern would be that it would give your negative and minority views disproportionate publicity, and perhaps an unintended air of credibility (meaning endorsement by the BBKA) if such an event were to be staged.

 

[Dishmop]

From the The Natural Beekeeping Trust

many of the bees’ major health problems are, in fact, caused by beekeepers,

And, last but not least, honey is needed in large quantities (some 40 lbs for an average-size colony) to ensure survival in the winter.

Until two centuries ago beekeepers understood the vital role of honey for the well-being of the bee colony. The only honey harvested was the true surplus which was still in the hive in the spring following the year of its collection by the bees. This is an ancient practice well worth reviving now.

If honey is harvested it should preferably be taken at a time of certain nectar flow, usually mid-April or whenever the willow or dandelion yields.

Harvesting honey late in summer or in early autumn, as is commonplace today and advocated by nearly every beekeeping book on the market, carries the risk of depriving the bees of their own food supply and exposing them to starvation, especially during wet summers (no full foraging) or very dry summers (no nectar flow), not to mention protracted and damp winters.

There is no substitute for honey, this finest and purest food, the only substance perfectly suited to the metabolism of the honeybee and for the rearing of its young.

The widespread practice of substituting sugar water for the honey taken from the bees has no place in a natural beekeeping approach aimed at restoring the honeybee’s vitality and health.

The responsible beekeeper will ensure that sufficient honey reserves are kept aside for the purpose of feeding the bees in his or her care in times of need.

Of course, beekeepers in their first year will not have such reserves. What to do? The first course of action is to try and source local honey from a reputable beekeeper. If that is not possible, or in case of great urgency, such as when a colony is found on the brink of starvation, a sugar/water solution containing at least 10% of honey, some camomile tea and a pinch of salt should be offered to the bees.

 

[Dishmop]

The only honey harvested was the true surplus which was still in the hive in the spring following the year of its collection by the bees.

Experience from my observation hive shows that any honey left after the winter period is in fact eaten very quickly as soon as they start flying, giving the energy they need to forage for new food.

 

[Anduril]

Looking at Dishmops post the natural beekeeping trust should review their poor knowledge. The diseases that will result from feeding someone else's honey to the bees by unsuspecting newbies will shatter their hopes.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Until two centuries ago beekeepers understood the vital role of honey for the well-being of the bee colony. The only honey harvested was the true surplus which was still in the hive in the spring following the year of its collection by the bees. This is an ancient practice well worth reviving now.

What an absolute load of spheroids - where did they dream that one up? until two centuries ago (when moveable frame hives were first being thought of) honey was harvested at the end of the year by destroying the colony.

 

[Dishmop]

If you wish to book a course to find out all about everything that Heidi doesnt know about you can book here.

Course Price: £140.00
The price includes: Organic/biodynamic lunch and refreshments

Email Bookings: [email protected]


Hhhmmm. One assumes that the email Heidi will know more about the sun hives and tuition courses than the Heidi who is posting on this forum, and who only keeps bees.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Biodynamic lunch eh - that'll mean sprouts again then

 

[For want of a better word]

Biodynamic lunch eh - that'll mean sprouts again then

Runner Beans Diolch !

 

[sunhivebee]

Dan, for someone who opened the discussion with: "you're talking rubbish with experienced beekeepers in the room." it is a little rich to refer to the responder's language as emotive. But never mind. It's all useless chatter in view of the environmental catastrophy we are all facing, beekeepers or not.
I appreciate all the trouble you have taken to explain the BBKA's erstwhile pesticide position. I hope your diplomacy is appreciated by the organisation, you have done a good job.
As I suggested, let's go for a talk show - or a conference call to include some of the other polite gentlemen expressing themselves so very un-emotively here. We will not find much common ground through an on-going copy-and-paste battle, would you agree?
I have been contacted by a bbc radio producer. Not sure yet what they have in mind, but if I have any input, I will propose a conversation with a number of beekeepers holding different views rather than having my own solicited. Views are just views. Mine of three days ago have metamorphosed. Lets agree that the bees are unfathomable and that we should plant meadows instead of arguing fruitlessly in cyber space. Come to our next big bee event, it will be a celebration of the honeybee. And Nature.
Must be off now, to read a promising book: Proof of Heaven by Dr Eben Alexander. I have faith in heaven but look forward to reading about a neurosurgeon's take on it.
Genuinely kind wishes
Heidi

 

[sunhivebee]

Hhhmmm. One assumes that the email Heidi will know more about the sun hives and tuition courses than the Heidi who is posting on this forum, and who only keeps bees.

Dishmop, no conspiracy theories please. And for heaven's sake don't promote our website, we are bloody busy! And yes, we are an egalitarian club, I help with admin when I am not cuddling my bees. It is expected, sometimes. But I prefer cuddling my bees.

 

[DanBee]

Dan, for someone who opened the discussion with: "you're talking rubbish with experienced beekeepers in the room." it is a little rich to refer to the responder's language as emotive. But never mind.

It would be chronologically correct - if rather puerile - to observe that you started it

It's all useless chatter in view of the environmental catastrophy we are all facing, beekeepers or not.

Careful, that reads like a body swerve. Care to discuss swarming now that each 'side' have laid out their wares?

I appreciate all the trouble you have taken to explain the BBKA's erstwhile pesticide position. I hope your diplomacy is appreciated by the organisation, you have done a good job.

Call me cynical but it sounds like I am being accused of positive spin, obfuscation, or PR, rather than presenting facts. My intention was to present the facts; I am unsure of the meaning of your reply.

As I suggested, let's go for a talk show - or a conference call to include some of the other polite gentlemen expressing themselves so very un-emotively here. We will not find much common ground through an on-going copy-and-paste battle, would you agree?
I have been contacted by a bbc radio producer. Not sure yet what they have in mind, but if I have any input, I will propose a conversation with a number of beekeepers holding different views rather than having my own solicited.

I am not interested in edited soundbites, nor of selling a lifestyle ideal to aspirational consumers. The media does rather appear to enjoy the fringe. I would find it much more productive and stimulating to delve into details and specifics live, in front of and in response to, an audience who have both knowledge and experience of the subject. I do not propose myself as an expert, but I am happy to subject my position, opinions, and understanding to such scrutiny. Are you?

Views are just views. Mine of three days ago have metamorphosed. Lets agree that the bees are unfathomable and that we should plant meadows instead of arguing fruitlessly in cyber space.

Careful - this too feels like a body swerve. You have been challenged on a number of assertions you have made conversationally, and that your organisation continues to publish, and it will not help your position to dismiss them lightly.

Come to our next big bee event, it will be a celebration of the honeybee. And Nature.

Thank you, that is a kind invite. In return I would suggest you come to the spring convention with an open mind and see what is happening in 'conventional' beekeeping. You may be pleasantly surprised at how much care and understanding - both for the honeybee and her environment - is already thriving there.

 

[susbees]

They tend to build their combs without starter strips, thanks to the ingenious design of the frames I use

Modest and unassuming....

and probably because they love me.

Please let's not try and pretend bees have human emotions. How. Totally. Ridiculous.

And, while we're on the subject, how does one cuddle a superorganism?

 

[DanBee]

And, while we're on the subject, how does one cuddle a superorganism?

Collectively?

 

[susbees]

And for heaven's sake don't promote our website, we are bloody busy!

....promoting fantasies such as bees politely waiting for the beekeeper to remove honey in April just as the reliable dandelion crop begins. 200 years ago, skeppists harvested in autumn as you well know although you missed/chose to ignore my statement that it is quite possible to inspect individual removable combs in a simple £30 skep.

Dare I admit that we had a talk on swarm control tonight from an ex Chair of the BBKA E&H committee?

 

[Dishmop]

in view of the environmental catastrophy we are all facing

and why is this?

surely not because beekeepers use methods that you are telling everybody are wrong, and that it is our fault that bees are in decline. Do you also tell your students that the atmosphere is being polluted because of the vast amounts of peat being burned in Russia and that will also have an effect on everything that breathes? Do your basket weavers show any feelings for the children in Africa that get kidnapped and killed and thier body parts eaten because of some ignorant belief in magical powers? Do they ever wonder why when we are being told that oil and gas will run out in so many years that millions of cubic feet of liquid natural gas are just burned off every year?
Nope. The world will end because of wing clipping and sugar, and the other things dont relate to earning money do they?

Dishmop, no conspiracy theories please. And for heaven's sake don't promote our website, we are bloody busy!

but you have time here to try and promote your theory, which isnt quite working so perhaps your time would be better used in helping out with the workload.

I help with admin when I am not cuddling my bees. It is expected, sometimes

so were you being uneconomical with the truth when you said that you didnt know what is happening back at the funny farm?
Sometimes? Not very efficient way to do things then with you being the only person to contact via email for booking enquiries.


You are promoting a business by trying to rubbish existing beeks and their methods.
The bits that I copied from the web site are inaccurate and quite untrue so one wonders that if it isnt lack of knowledge on the author's part, it must be deliberate deception to help with the sun hive making/sales and anything associated with it. Deliberate deception is fraud.

If you think that giving your bees honey "from a local source" is the done thing to do then you are more of a danger to the honey bee than somebody who throws petrol on a swarm and puts a match to it.
Telling your followers that beekeepers should only harvest honey left after the end of winter is rubbish because there isnt any there to harvest, or if there is then its not of a suitable quality or quantity to make the operation viable, but ah, then we get to the filthy lucre side of it. Wash my mouth out.
As you know ( I assume) honey is used not just for spreading on toast. There are many other uses and therefore a demand by industry. If beeks didnt harvest honey from the first early crop and SOME from the autumn crop then there wouldnt be enough to fill the demand by industry for the quantity required that doesnt get spread on toast.


You dont feed sugar or other ****. (your words) unless in an emergency.
The "emergency" being a swarm. Crap. A swarm is quite capable of surviving without being fed but its sensible to help them and you admit to doing just that but only because its obvious you dont know its not needed. If you dont believe me look around on this forum and you will find pictures of comb built in trees and hedges and lofts and churches and on the side of a power station. Nobody fed them. So the only **** being fed is by you to benefit whoever the investors are.
One thing you havent attempted to reply about is my remarks about what you call "natural" beekeeping, and thats because there isnt such a thing is there? Your methods are not even as "hands off" as the Warre principle because sun hives use frames whereas Warre do not.
Swarm suppression? Impossible, unless you block the entrance.
Even the term Swarm Prevention would be better termed as "Hopeful" Swarm Prevention. Even queens with clipped wings will attempt to swarm, but obviously they dont get very far.
Swarms can cause panic and fear to people who are not knowledgable about bees, and also generates complaints from neighbours who may decide that a can of wasp killer will solve the problem, therefore, is it not sensible to try and stop swarming and not just only for the finacial loss? But no,, why bother? just let them go and scare the crap out of people before they decide on where they want to live. Hopefully they can be collected before they take a liking to somebodys thatched roof and become the house owners problem. Therefore attempting to stop bees from swarming saves a lot of aggro and not only for the beekeeper. Clipping wings is not the only way.
If you do nothing to try and prevent swarming, they will swarm but I doubt that my neighbours will be impressed with the explaination that there is swarm in their rose bush because its natural. So what do I do? I go and collect them and put them in a box. Oh....... lets see.. I wonder...what if next year I remove half of the bees from my hive and put them in a new box before they get the hump and decided that they need more room.......There yer go! I'm pleased with myself and the bees are happy. I know they're happy because they are still there and havent pissed off somewhere, and the neighbours are happy. Only person not happy is Heidi because it doesnt do much for her sales pitch.
Natural is for us to kill to survive. To raid the next village for new blood lines, and steal their food before they do it to us. Unfortunatley not all of the world has evolved past that state. Anybody see TV last night? Chimp banging a tree with a stick to get the bees out so he/she could steal the honey? Is that natural? No, they have learned to do it, the same way we have learned to build wooden boxes instead of crushing and smashing the homes of bees to get the honey, and thus also enabling us to manage bee colonies, for whatever reason, with a view to thier survival.
The sun hive is an evolvement from the ages old woven skep and has the facility whereby it can be taken apart for???????????? what? as theres no harvestable honey in spring and its cruel and not natural to harvest any in the autumn. Why would you ever consider there to be any need to poke around inside? Its not natural.
I said some time back that I really dont care if Heidi's cause is financial or whatever. Pretty colours. Hari Krishna. Dip in the river. Hold hands and talk to a wicker basket. Not in the slightest bit worried, but when she fails to answer questions and only replies with remarks and references and quotes and cut and pastes, to me I see that the only reason for her being here is to push her cause. Good try but didnt work. She may well have good intentions but perhaps she should have gotten her facts correct before attempting to right the world by discrediting established methods of beekeeping and telling everybody what really wicked money grabbers we are who have no concern for the health or survival of the honey bee.
No doubt we will find some of what we have written here used as out of context quotes on a sun hive promotional blog. But no definition of natural beekeeping.