National Organisation for England

[victor meldrew]

Efb has been around the "UK" for donkey's years.
It was dealt with in the same manner as afb ie colony destruction!.
This policy was amended in the enlightened not too distant past into treating "none to serious" cases with antibiotics/ shook swarming ?.(albeit by the knowledgeable authorities )
This change was presided over by defra and not by any beekeeping association within the British Isles!.

John Wilkison

 

[planbee]

Point taken PH.

John

 

[DulwichGnome]

If any one is taking this forward and has been able to find insurance cover for it's members please make sure it is easily ungradeable. The best way would be if the member could phone/email the company and know that it was sorted.....

Mike.

 

[rourkie]

hi can i ask that you do not exclude the othe regions from this group, let it be like this forum everyone welcome.not like the bbka eliist and stuck up its own orfice regards jim

 

[Poly Hive]

If you read the whole thread you will find we are discussing a matter other than the forum. We are discussing trying to set up an organisation to suit the members. The sticking point is insurance really. Any advance on that side Admin?

What level of sub would members find as the top end? I currently pay £40 odd for my individual membership. Plus my SBA membership of course. I know many are members of that organisation via local associations. So if the sub to the LA is say £20, what amount of that goes to the other lot?

PH

 

[OXFORDBEE]

From Herts BBKA website:

BBKA have increased Capitation fees to £14.00 for 2008. This new rate will be payable on 1st April 2009.

 

[hedgerow pete]

he's back, after having read this whole thread from start to finish, its time for my ten peneth .instead of going for the politicly correct name , ie bee keepers ass. we not remove the whole UK bit and also incase of prossicution for sounding the same lose the letters BKA as well. why not go completly against the whole pc brigade and call it the Apiarist of the queens the Empire (AOTQTE) or (AQE) dont forget that apart from some of the out lying areas of the world we did not want we were and still are the world!!!!


now hows that for starting a fight!

 

[jimbeekeeper]

What level of sub would members find as the top end? I currently pay £40 odd for my individual membership. PH

Personaly £50 tops would be my figure.

 

[FenBee]

I can see one potential problem in the case where you wish to belong to both associations, i.e. BBKA and this new society / association. That is if you could end up being doubly insured. My understanding is insurance companies will not allow you to claim twice, so you would end up with say 50% from the BBKA and this new insurance scheme. So, I think you would need to insure with just one company.

With regard to a name, how about Albion Apiarist Association (A³)

 

[rourkie]

hi, poly hive i did read the whole thread and by group i was reffering to any new organisation not the forum. and some of the views in the thread sugested it should be the english---- ?. thats why i used the word group as the name seems to be an issue.I would be prepared to pay £50 per year for a body that represents uk beekeepers. regards jim

 

[jean]

If, and it's a very big IF there were to be an English beekeeping organisation set up to be more bee friendly what would it be called?

English Beekeeping Association?

English Beekeepers Society?

I personally don't think the word British is appropriate as I find it rather arrogant to use it for "just" England.

Thoughts?

PH

First thought as I'm not in touch with all this, is why do people want this association? Is it to distance itself from the BBKA because of the Bayer mess, or are there other reasons, and if so, what?
Any association should have some sort of charter so members know if what they are thinking of joining
suits them. If it's just for insurance does a name even matter? If there are more important driving forces, then perhaps these will give rise to a name?

 

[Poly Hive]

Fair enough Jm but there is an issue.

And that is that there are very different set ups in Scotland, Defra has no remit over the border. and of course Wales and NI.

A national organisation is really not on the cards and if anything there is considerably less chance of it happening than there was ten years ago.

There is a considerable disquiet with the BBKa on several fronts. There is the spray shambles, which to be fair I think has caught them out badly and badly out of touch with their membership which has also had a sea change just very recently. Then there is the general disquiet over what they provide for the membership fee if one is not that interested in exams? The main reason for being a member it seems to this observer is that it is insurance that is the issue.

Others of course will have their own thoughts on this.

PH

 

[hedgerow pete]

that was the nail pretty square on i think ph.
i only want the insurance part if any from the bbka but since i get it else where it dont bother me, as for the rest of the bbka it has never even come close to what i want from a club, maybe its size or just the idiots i have dealt with , but either way pole and barge spring to mind

 

[match]

I'm all in favour of changing the name of the BBKA. They were my first port of call when I became interested in beekeeping, only to discover that they don't cover Scotland, and a separate SBA covers us.

Nationalism or Independence aside (I'm South African, so don't have a strong view either way ) - to me British means 'from Britain', and Britain is England, Scotland and Wales.

I think this causes a level of confusion amongst non-beekeepers (especially in the media, who often report BBKA decisions on bee-related matters in Scottish newspapers).

It also causes a degree of separation - there's very often an 'us and them' approach between the different societies.

But mainly its just the wrong word, and I'm a language pedant.

So my vote would be to either change it to the 'English Beekeepers Association', or have a drive to make the BBKA really represent all of Britain.

 

[Brosville]

A rose would smell as sweet....... I really don't think the name is of vast importance, "Indybeeks" would do me........
All I want is a society to which local associations could affiliate, and individual members could join, where we are all assured that the association is working for ALL beekeepers, where money isn't wasted on premises, curtains, junkets and "staff", and where any "officers" are few, transparently elected, and completely answerable to the "rank and file" at all times. ANY affiliations to such things as chemical companies never to be contemplated.........
As I've said before, thanks to the internet, apart from things like insurance, there is not actually any need for membership fees, premises, and feet under comfy tables.........
I'm "just a newbie" and find that a certain society is going to force me from membership of my local association (they refuse to allow anyone to be exempt the "political levy"), and in my opinion are a divisive influence in British beekeeping, only really interested in furthering the interests of their buddies in the "icide" business, and are about as democratic as the old DDR........ we need a clean fresh sheet of paper

 

[Hombre]

I more than imagine that Scotland being subject to a different legal system to England and Wales; sorry not familiar with an NI differenced, would make the formation of an overarching organisation and Insurance scheme for all potentially complicated?

Would that fresh clean sheet of paper be nice and soft or a bit crinkly Brosville?

 

[ribblesbees]

All I want is a society to which local associations could affiliate, and individual members could join, where we are all assured that the association is working for ALL beekeepers, where money isn't wasted on premises, curtains, junkets and "staff", and where any "officers" are few, transparently elected, and completely answerable to the "rank and file" at all times. ANY affiliations to such things as chemical companies never to be contemplated.........
As I've said before, thanks to the internet, apart from things like insurance, there is not actually any need for membership fees, premises, and feet under comfy tables.........

Brosville, You too have hit the nail on the head re the bigger association/clubs/whatever.

I also belong to another bee unrelated national (and it does include Scotland/Wales and N.I) organisation and they are so tight-fisted when it come to local branches spending money but they think nothing of top hotels, lavish food etc when it comes to the HQ meetings/conferences etc.

What is perceived as being a waste of money by grass roots members is, for me, a big reason for not joining an organisation. For me, personally, any such organisation etc must be totally transparent in its activities/finances etc and above all treat its members/branches fairly and consistently.

Rant over

 

[roche]

I think there are two primary reasons that people adhere to the BBKA - insurance and education. They are both important, especially for new beeks. I think a new society should maybe include a website of some sort with maybe a basic introduction to beekeeping. The new organisation should be unifying beeks, not dividing them as the BBKA has done. The BBKA also has structural problems that prevent it from being a well run democratic organisation. Forming the new organisation as a virtual one from the start will avoid many of those problems. By avoiding those pitfalls it runs a very good chance of being the voice for beekeepers in the UK - if thats what it wants to be...

 

[BKF Admin]

I more than imagine that Scotland being subject to a different legal system to England and Wales; sorry not familiar with an NI differenced, would make the formation of an overarching organisation and Insurance scheme for all potentially complicated?

Why not start a world beekeeping organisation that has seperate insurance for each country ?

You would only need a single member from each country to organise seperate insurance for its members ?

ok it sounds difficult but if we get insurance sorted for England, then what is stopping the organisation helping members in say Scotland getting its own seperate policy under its own laws ?

 

[Poly Hive]

The SBA already have a good deal going Admin.

PH