National Hives: Brood standard or deep box

[GavB]

Noob question......

Just wondered if there was any benefits from having the larger brood box with a national hive over the standard box everyone mainly sells with nucs. Is it just weight related and better for easy inspection. How many brood boxes / size would you use before usually adding supers.

cheers...

Stokie clayhead lol

 

[Erichalfbee]

There are people who have six supers or more on a standard brood, three on a 14x12 or maybe only one. It depends on the bees and the forage. Some say a BSNat is too small for the modern bee. Your choice could include brood and a half. I prefer one box of larger frames to one and a half boxes. Suck it and see?

 

[For want of a better word]

There are people who have six supers or more on a standard brood, three on a 14x12 or maybe only one. It depends on the bees and the forage. Some say a BSNat is too small for the modern bee. Your choice could include brood and a half. I prefer one box of larger frames to one and a half boxes. Suck it and see?

Hybrid exotic , Buckfasts Italian or what ever... due to the Mediterranean climate they are adapted for do have a booming cycle, I would go for double standard brood, then at least when rapid expansion occurs you only need to add a box... and not have them sulking on frames they can feel lost on.

Bear in mind when rapid expansion takes place they can gobble up all of their supered stores... and if you have already taken the honey off, they will need feeding!

Personal preference and depth of your pockets have a part to play as well.

Others will no doubt disagree

Yeghes da

 

[colinc]

Personal choice. Double brood more frames to check but lighter individual frames.
14/12 or deeps less box lifting but heavier to handle individual frames.

Maybe get a local keeper to show and demonstrate the differences.

I run double brood standard nationals and it also makes swarm control methods slightly more physical. Currently got a 21 broodframe colony that is Q-, awaiting merging.


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[wightbees]

May I ask why you have ruled out dadant or Lang's?

 

[GavB]

Haven't really ruled anything out don't know a great deal to be honest still reading up about getting started..its just that a place called abelo had a all in starter deal with poly national hive with bees £450 I'd been looking at to be honest. And on many sites they seem to say most common hive and good for beginners???

 

[Beefriendly]

Hybrid exotic , Buckfasts Italian or what ever... due to the Mediterranean climate they are adapted

Buckfast were developed in the harsh climate of Dartmoor that's just about as unMediterranean as you can get climate wise.
It's a testament to Br. Adams breeding program that these bees will thrive just about anywhere in the world. They do particularly well in their country of origin.

 

[ShinySideUp]

I'm not experienced but 'have done a course' where different hive sizes and types were demonstrated and came to the conclusion that a brood box of 14 x 12 would suit me best. The frames are quite large but the lugs are also big enough to get a couple of fingers around, plus with the device I built to carry the frames during examination (so I don't have to) I find they are both big enough for the bees and handleable. Each to their own but at least for now 14 x 12's seem ideal.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Buckfast were developed in the harsh climate of Dartmoor that's just about as unMediterranean as you can get climate wise.
It's a testament to Br. Adams breeding program that these bees will thrive just about anywhere in the world. They do particularly well in their country of origin.

I concur entirely with what you have written. There are colonies of Buckfast bees on the Western sea board of southern Ireland, they thrive despite the cold, the rain and the wind and having but little forage.

 

[Millet]

I'm not experienced but 'have done a course' where different hive sizes and types were demonstrated and came to the conclusion that a brood box of 14 x 12 would suit me best. The frames are quite large but the lugs are also big enough to get a couple of fingers around, plus with the device I built to carry the frames during examination (so I don't have to) I find they are both big enough for the bees and handleable. Each to their own but at least for now 14 x 12's seem ideal.

Personally i would hang fire on a 14 x 12 until you get the hang of things ie how prolific the Queen is in the bees you have chosen, the first bees i acquired had a queen that can fill a standard brood box comfortably and one or two frames in the super above (no Queen excluder) by the way, but a 14 x 12 would have been too much and the rest would have been filled with stores i presume.
However the bees i have now would run out of space in a single 14 x 12 so standard double brood is handy for these me thinks, just see how you go over the season and the next season before you make your mind up as it may save you a few quid in the long run.

 

[Uncle Betty]

I concur entirely with what you have written. There are colonies of Buckfast bees on the Western sea board of southern Ireland, they thrive despite the cold, the rain and the wind and having but little forage.

Are you sure there are none in Donegal ?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Haven't really ruled anything out don't know a great deal to be honest still reading up about getting started..its just that a place called abelo had a all in starter deal with poly national hive with bees £450 I'd been looking at to be honest. And on many sites they seem to say most common hive and good for beginners???

Abelo are fairly local to me and I've found Damien the proprietor to be helpful and highly knowledgeable. I bought one of his Lyson Polyhive sets to trial this spring plus my association has two and yesterday one of our new starters at the association apiary appeared with another which I set up for her to transfer 6 frames of bees into from a burgeoning nucleus colony she bought from the association.
The Lyson polyhive is a nice bit of kit but I'm not keen on the crownboard which has five holes with vent screens and loose covers for the screens. I've found the loose covers a nuisance during inspection and the bees have been busy propolising the vent screens. At home I've swapped the crownboard on mine for a clear polycarbonate one with an insulation cover.
I'd have fitted a clear crownboard on any hive that came without one so don't read too much into the crownboard remark as a bit of sellotape might have stopped the loose covers falling about.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Are you sure there are none in Donegal ?

There certainly are Buckfast bees in Donegal, there are some relatively large apiaries of Buckfasts there, tucked away in the glens and near the coast. There is a very pleasant and straight dealing bee equipment supplier in that county, who stocks langstroth hives.....
The latest convert that I know of, is an RC Parish Priest in the Cork/Tipperary/Waterford area, he is just an individual who took advice to trial the bees and make up his own mind.

 

[TonyPayne]

I'm no expert, I've only been keeping bee for a couple of years but from my limited experience I'd say 14 x 12's suit me best. I think my bees would outgrow the standard frames very early in the season. I bought a standard brood box recently to try and now I regret it.

They do sell conversion kits though, so you could always buy a standard National brood box and frames and convert it at a later date if you think it is too small.

I think the hassle of manipulating a brood and a half or a double brood box is enough to put me off. The only down side of 14 x 12's as far as I can see is the extra weight.