Moving from standard National deep to 14x12

[Markthebuilder]

Just put natiOnals in

Thinking of trying couple hives next year as 14x12 single brood box colonies. Currently running single standard deep configuration.
What’s the best way to move them over to 14x12? Demaree them into the 14x12 box? Put the deep frames into a 14x12 box and have them draw those further down?
Have no 14x12 drawn frames at this point.
Thanks.

Yes do just that mine built drone comb under the nationals brood in prefrance to drawing out new foundation on 14x12 frames. The bees seam to like it so much that I on my next hive I deliberately bought and fitted some 14x12 frames with deep brood foundation so they could continue to do it .
The still confided myself a total novice so heed any others contradiction to this but I would the swap early in spring once cluster has broken and they are over say 4 frames . only use those 4 frames in your 14x 12 with new foundation both sides then feed all they will take until they have drawn the rest of the frames and probebly filled them then stick a super on if they appear to be getting short of laying space because they are back filing the original 4 frames with feed remove an outside foundation frame and put it in middle of brood if it’s warm enough or if cold use one of your spare empty-brood frames.

 

[oliver90owner]

If you have no 14 x 12 drawn frames, one way to get them fully drawn - and neat & even, too - is to give them the frames during a strong flow (spring OSR?) as a super. Extract the super when filled and, voila, you have a box of fully drawn 14 x 12 frames. Weak colonies or at other times (lesser flow periods) the frames may well not get drawn as well.

Placing some form of dummying under the deep frames will prevent the bees drawing more comb on those, instead of drawing the 14 x 12s. A remarkably simple means of achieving the result required (KISS Principle in action).

 

[Morgan968]

If you're talking of shook swarm. It's an abomination and no right minded beekeeper should even consider it unless they have an EFB outbreak

never said anything about me doing a shook swarm was just asking how apple got on with going from 14x2 to standard as this is what I'm and pondering doing over the next year or so

 

[victor meldrew]

never said anything about me doing a shook swarm was just asking how apple got on with going from 14x2 to standard as this is what I'm and pondering doing over the next year or so

I don’t think a shook swarm is the answer .
I chanbed the other way but if I were to revert I would put a Queen excluder on then put the standard above this having previously removed the Queen . I would then put her above the excluder, the bees would quickly join her .
when fully established, I would remove the 14x12 .

 

[victor meldrew]

I don’t think a shook swarm is the answer .
I chanbed the other way but if I were to revert I would put a Queen excluder on then put the standard above this having previously removed the Queen . I would then put her above the excluder, the bees would quickly join her .
when fully established, I would remove the 14x12 .

The standard box would contain drawn comb .

 

[Worker bee]

Wait until you need to split your hive make a six frame split and checkerboard between two 14x12s. They will draw the 14x12s and pull your other frames out below the bottom bar. Now you have two 14x12s. If you do it during a heat wave you shouldn't have a problem and you don't need to do a full checkerboard if you watch how they pull your frames you can do one or two at a time. If you get poly hives they will pull them pretty fast and they can hold a higher temperature. If you do do a full checkerboard in hot weather you'll probably find they pull your 14x12s in a few days just make sure you have plenty of bees even better if you can shake a few supers of bees into them

 

[pargyle]

never said anything about me doing a shook swarm was just asking how apple got on with going from 14x2 to standard as this is what I'm and pondering doing over the next year or so

He won't answer you - permanently banned member.

 

[Erichalfbee]

He won't answer you - permanently banned member.

I quite miss him, though

 

[oliver90owner]

never said anything about me doing a shook swarm was just asking how apple got on with going from 14x2 to standard as this is what I'm and pondering doing over the next year or so

Read my post just above your last one? KISS Principle, if you can work it out.

 

[pargyle]

I quite miss him, though

Yes ... so do I - groundhog day is never the same any more ....

 

[user 23247]

Easiest way is to work them in over time. Next year transfer the colony to the new 14x12 box and replace the national frames outside the brood nest with new 14x12's ones. A sugar syrup feed would be beneficial to encourage them to draw the new frames

At each subsequent inspection take a frame from one end of the hive and put it on the other side, when you get to the national frames (which at this stage should hopefully be brood less) replace with the 14x12.
Eventually you will have "conveyered" the national frames out.

Can I ask what you do with the comb full of stores on the removed national deep frames? Is there an easy way to feed them back to the bees once they have been cycled out of the new 14x12 box? Could you cut it out and put in a feeder?

 

[fian]

Solo la tontería habitual me la BBKA y otros no pensadores obsesionados con este método bárbaro.
Se han convencido a sí mismos de que 'impulsa' la actividad de la colonia, lo cual, para ser honesto, es una tontería total. Los pobres cabrones no tienen más remedio que trabajar más duro, ya que un payaso se los ha quitado de encima y los ha tirado en una caja desnuda sin nada más que cimientos.
Los agricultores de Cbee miran con desdén la práctica, incluso su uso para lidiar con EFB ahora está siendo cuestionado.
En cuanto al resto del mundo ...............................................

And if a swarm of shakes carried out on March/April were able to reduce the prevalence due to swarming by increasing the prevalence due to a replacement?

 

[ericbeaumont]

easy way to feed them back

Post 23 in 'Swapping from warm way to cold way' Swapping from warm way to cold way

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And if a swarm of shakes carried out on March/April were able to reduce the prevalence due to swarming by increasing the prevalence due to a replacement?

As I said, it's a barbaric manipulation favoured by non thinkers either as a way of disease control, frame replacement or quelling the swarming urge.

 

[user 23247]

Post 23 in 'Swapping from warm way to cold way' Swapping from warm way to cold way

Excellent

 

[Angry_Mob]

Can I ask what you do with the comb full of stores on the removed national deep frames? Is there an easy way to feed them back to the bees once they have been cycled out of the new 14x12 box? Could you cut it out and put in a feeder?

Given the way my season is going, you probably will have very few stores to worry about this.

I suppose one way to do it would be to bruise the stores and let the bees use them up or could even leave it in during winter and remove the frame in early spring.

 

[Martimart]

Everyone is different and has their opinions, but 14x12 suit me very well and I wouldn’t fancy any other type of hive.