Mouldy Frames

[Beedogg]

What should i do about frames of mouldy pollen? Will the bees clean them out or should I put new foundation in? I imagine it’s a trade-of between the value to the bees of the drawn comb vs the effort to clean them.
My hives seem to have a lot more mould in this year than last. I’m wondering why.

 

[pargyle]

Damp weather, smaller colonies, excess pollen stores that they were not able to use (They use pollen mainly for brood rearing as it is a protein source) are likely causes but it often happens in frames that are not being used over winter and are not full of capped honey.

The bees will usually clear the mould and any pollen residue if/when they need the cells but you can give them a hand by brushing the excess mould off the face of the comb with a stiff brush.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Bleurrrrgh! I usually throw wax like that out. Seems an awful lot of work for the bees

 

[pargyle]

Bleurrrrgh! I usually throw wax like that out. Seems an awful lot of work for the bees

It probably looks worse than it is ...given a brush off it may not be that bad. The bees will usually tell you if it's comb they don't want to use as they won't use it. Let's face it - it's a lot more work for them to build new comb than clean up existing comb. Drawn comb is a very valuable asset ... even if you decide not to use it .. dry it out, freeze it, treat it for wax moth and keep it.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I wouldn’t give any mouldy frames back/leave for the bees shouldn’t we be teaching that it’s bad for the bees ?
Spring colony’s need clean comb they have come out of winter and have to clean/rebuild mouldy comb more stresses and nasties the mould would have.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I wouldn’t give any mouldy frames back/leave for the bees shouldn’t we be teaching that it’s bad for the bees ?

is it?

 

[jeff33]

I wouldn’t give any mouldy frames back/leave for the bees shouldn’t we be teaching that it’s bad for the bees ?
Spring colony’s need clean comb they have come out of winter and have to clean/rebuild mouldy comb more stresses and nasties the mould would have.

Do we actually make them less hardy by applying anthropomorphism thinking? I think if we start being a bit too OCD with our beekeeping practices it will not do them any good.
Personally these specific ones would not have been re-used but I am not one for giving them unecessary work and replacing comb every season.

 

[drex]

I am all for reuse and have some really black frames, which the bees readily use, but those above I would put in my solar wax melter

 

[pargyle]

I wouldn’t give any mouldy frames back/leave for the bees shouldn’t we be teaching that it’s bad for the bees ?
Spring colony’s need clean comb they have come out of winter and have to clean/rebuild mouldy comb more stresses and nasties the mould would have.

Never heard of Penicillin ?

I don't think I've ever come across comb that bees won't clean out and use ... when they don't like it they will tear it down and rebuild it.

I'm not saying that comb from diseased colonies or that which is clearly past its sell by date should be used but I think that the current mantra, being taught to some beginners, that they should rotate comb out every three years is wrong ... it's a matter of judgement and replacing comb every year is wasteful.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Do we actually make them less hardy by applying anthropomorphism thinking? I think if we start being a bit too OCD with our beekeeping practices it will not do them any good.
Personally these specific ones would not have been re-used but I am not one for giving them unecessary work and replacing comb every season.

Hi Jeff,Not quite anthropomorphic thinking but I get where your coming from.
I’m all for reusing frames and I’ve just recently re- waxed 2017 frames .
I would allso stick my neck out and say if a colony has mould frames like that there is other issues with the colony .
Phil what’s this three year mantra stuff ? allso is it penicillin growing on pollen frames.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would allso stick my neck out and say if a colony has mould frames like that there is other issues with the colony .

I’m sure these are stored frames

 

[user 20297]

Stored frames from last season that had some pollen left in, and on which mould have grown during the winter are hardly likely to hurt the bees.
When I was a kid I remember my Dad making loads of blackberry jam that went fluffy-mouldy on top; we just scraped it off and the rest was fine.
Have none of the OCD'ers ever scraped mould off cheese and eaten the cheese underneath?
Most creatures, including humans, can deal with dirt and damage to food products that our modern instincts cause us to find visually unappetising or hazardous.

 

[JamezF]

Have none of the OCD'ers ever scraped mould off cheese and eaten the cheese underneath?

Most of the cheese I eat has mould right the way through it

James

 

[JamezF]

Phil what’s this three year mantra stuff ?

The NBU says:

Why should I change old brood combs?​

​

Combs should be changed regularly as they become damaged, contain extensive
amounts or inconveniently placed drone comb, but mostly because used comb may
contain the causative organism of many bee diseases, such as EFB, AFB, Nosema,
etc.​

​

How often should I change them?​

​

There are many opinions as to this question but no brood comb should be used for
more than three years.​

I really can't see what the deal is with damaged comb. If the bees need it they'll surely fix it. And drone comb? So what?

The original document is here: https://nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1074

For something produced by an organisation that promotes itself as a centre of excellence in research into bee health I have to say it's apallingly badly written.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For something produced by an organisation that promotes itself as a centre of excellence in research into bee health I have to say it's apallingly badly written.

where do you think they get their ideas from?

 

[Erichalfbee]

where do you think they get their ideas from?

Ummmmm?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ummmmm?

You only have to look at some of the core competencies listed on any NBU job advers - it's always 'desirable' that they have some BBKA 'qualifications' in fact, if I recall when one of the senior level posts was advertised a few years ago it was compulsory!

 

[Newbeeneil]

The NBU says:

Why should I change old brood combs?​

​

Combs should be changed regularly as they become damaged, contain extensive​

amounts or inconveniently placed drone comb, but mostly because used comb may​

contain the causative organism of many bee diseases, such as EFB, AFB, Nosema,​

etc.​

​

How often should I change them?​

​

There are many opinions as to this question but no brood comb should be used for​

more than three years.​

I really can't see what the deal is with damaged comb. If the bees need it they'll surely fix it. And drone comb? So what?

The original document is here: https://nationalbeeunit.com/downloadDocument.cfm?id=1074

For something produced by an organisation that promotes itself as a centre of excellence in research into bee health I have to say it's apallingly badly written.

James

That’s why they were advertising for a new technical guy recently. One of his jobs was to sort out the web site I believe.

 

[Garry R]

Just because comb is old does not mean that the frames are knackered so get rid of the comb and boil the frames in boiling washing soda - re-wax with fresh foundation and save cash.

 

[JamezF]

I've spent a while searching, but I can find no real justification for the suggestion that comb should be replaced at least every three years (rather than some other period).

This article by Bob Binnie is quite interesting though. Not only because he talks about comb replacement, but also discusses the increase in toxicity of mite treatments in the presence of other chemicals in the environment. The TL;DR summary is probably this:

I believe I am well served by replacing brood combs before they are ten or twelve years old​

with the proviso that it's his opinion only, for his specific situation, and not based on any scientific study.

James