What chance of survival?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's surprising what contains cyanide.

Celotex for one - it was a contributory factor in the Grenfell disaster

 

[pargyle]

Amazing what bees do survive....considering the things some folk do to them. Mind you I used a good stuffing of lavender, orange peel and bay leaves in my smoker uneventfully for years till somebody here pointed out bay contains cyanide.

Bay leaves don't contain cyanide - that's a myth. People think it, mistakenly, because some related species (cherry laurel in particular) do have dangerous levels of cyanide in their leaves. Bay laurel - perfectly safe, you can eat it, burn it, put it in yuur smoker - it has rather a nice smell when burnt because of the aromatics in there. The aromatic oils from bay leaves are often used in cosmetics and fragrances.

 

[Moobee]

Amazing what bees do survive....considering the things some folk do to them. Mind you I used a good stuffing of lavender, orange peel and bay leaves in my smoker uneventfully for years till somebody here pointed out bay contains cyanide.

Does it?? Heavens, we just clipped the bay tree and I was thinking all those cut leaves would be lovely in the smoker…..

 

[JamezF]

Bay leaves don't contain cyanide

[This is all from memory, so may not be the full detail. It's only just been recovered from whichever filing cabinet my brain stored the information in at the time whilst I was eating lunch. I looked it up a few years back when I was giving an overgrown cherry laurel a fearsome pruning and wanted to know if I could put the chipped brash into the compost safely. I did ]

I have a nagging feeling that in fact almost none of the usual quoted suspects (there are quite a few I believe) specifically contain cyanide. From memory it's some other chemical (Amygdalin, perhaps? Not sure, and it may be different in different plants). When it is ingested, cyanide is one of the metabolites (possibly produced as a result of enzyme action in the liver?).

I wouldn't be surprised if it had absolutely no effect on bees whatsoever. I don't even know that the same processes (resulting in the production of cyanide) can occur in all mammals. Given that the bee metabolism works very differently from a humans, cyanide may not even be able to enter their system even if it could be produced by burning cherry laurel leaves, which I doubt.

Humans can safely metabolise low levels of cyanide even so. Otherwise anyone who ever chewed an apple pip and swallowed it would be in trouble.

James

 

[drex]

Bay leaves are toxic for dogs. My dog had an overnight stay at the vets after eating just a few leaves. He was very poorly. I now clear up any pruning thoroughly, even though he snaffled the leaves on a walk

 

[Erichalfbee]

Does it??

No according to Philip

 

[pargyle]

No according to Philip

Who checked on the Web... so it must be true !

 

[Erichalfbee]

 

[madasafish]

Well my recipes have come from a tf biodynamic beekeeper of some 60 years the chamomile and yarrow are to build there immune system I haven’t got some of the other herbs which were to be added to the syrup/honey teas - feeding the teas in the autumn being the optimum time to get it into the bees.
Don’t fix it but find alternatives if they work.

All totally illegal of course.

 

[Erichalfbee]

All totally illegal of course.

Considering we are selling a food product to the public we have to be extra careful.

 

[pargyle]

Considering we are selling a food product to the public we have to be extra careful.

But fine to use in your smoker !

 

[Curly green finger's]

All totally illegal of course.

As is using generic OA that’s not licensed.

 

[pargyle]

As is using generic OA that’s not licensed.

What ... are you using that as well ? I thought you were trying to be fully organic ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

As is using generic OA that’s not licensed.

I’m not so I’m all right Jack

 

[Curly green finger's]

What ... are you using that as well ? I thought you were trying to be fully organic ?

Oa is organic…

 

[pargyle]

Oa is organic…

Not according to the Soil Association's definition of organic it's not..

 

[JamezF]

Not according to the Soil Association's definition of organic it's not..

The SA's document on farming and growing appears to me to suggest that in "organic beekeeping" products approved by the VMD can be used to treat varroa. It also says specifically that OA can be used to treat for varroa:

GB 3.13.12 Treatment of Varroa mite infestation
If you have an infestation of Varroa destructor, you may:
a) destroy the male brood to contain the infestation
b) use formic acid, lactic acid, acetic acid and oxalic acid
c) use menthol, thymol, eucalyptol or camphor, and
d) use veterinary treatments which are compulsory under national or community legislation.

which in itself is quite interesting. If the SA say that OA (without qualification, therefore presumably "neat" OA is acceptable) can be used, how does that stack up with only being allowed to use treatments approved by the VMD, I wonder?

James

 

[Curly green finger's]

The SA's document on farming and growing appears to me to suggest that in "organic beekeeping" products approved by the VMD can be used to treat varroa. It also says specifically that OA can be used to treat for varroa:

GB 3.13.12 Treatment of Varroa mite infestation
If you have an infestation of Varroa destructor, you may:
a) destroy the male brood to contain the infestation
b) use formic acid, lactic acid, acetic acid and oxalic acid
c) use menthol, thymol, eucalyptol or camphor, and
d) use veterinary treatments which are compulsory under national or community legislation.

which in itself is quite interesting. If the SA say that OA (without qualification, therefore presumably "neat" OA is acceptable) can be used, how does that stack up with only being allowed to use treatments approved by the VMD, I wonder?

James

We’ve talked about this before james on more than one occasion, I have a friend who is a field agent and comes to collect samples annually and we have discussed OA treatments at great lengths and OA is ok to use.

 

[JamezF]

We’ve talked about this before james on more than one occasion

I had a vague memory that we had. Otherwise I'd probably not have known where to look it up.

James

 

[Curly green finger's]

I had a vague memory that we had. Otherwise I'd probably not have known where to look it up.

James

So really what’s the difference between me using my teas to help against nosema if we are allowed to use thymol etc?