Maqs killing Bees

[BeeJayBee]

Used MAQS this year and last with no problems at all.

Will use MAQs again when necessary ...

My friend thought it`s something to do with chemical reaction between polystyrene and formic acid, but I believe that this reaction simply can not happen ..

Whilst they haven't tested MAQS on poly hives, they have tested it with pieces of polystyrene hives, and found no reaction. http://www.maqs.co.uk/blog-before-you-treat/category/polystyrene

Subject: Polystyrene Hives
Q) I use Polystyrene Bee Hives in my operation, can I use MAQS beehive strips without it melting or having some obscure chemical reaction?
A) We haven’t done any exact testing on Polystyrene hives, however we did do some testing with pieces of the poly and found no chemical reaction. Looking at a Polystyrene data sheet it gives no indication that when in contact with formic acid there would be any melting or chemical reaction.​

All mine are poly hives, by the way, I haven't seen anything untoward with the structure of the polystyrene.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Q) I use Polystyrene Bee Hives in my operation, can I use MAQS beehive strips without it melting or having some obscure chemical reaction?
A) We haven’t done any exact testing on Polystyrene hives, however we did do some testing with pieces of the poly and found no chemical reaction. Looking at a Polystyrene data sheet it gives no indication that when in contact with formic acid there would be any melting or chemical reaction. [/INDENT][/I]All mine are poly hives, by the way, I haven't seen anything untoward with the structure of the polystyrene.

You with me also then But how did your bees react to the MAQs? Have you noticed anything similar to the story I described?

 

[BeeJayBee]

No, I didn't notice anything untoward. No piles of dead bees outside, and no queens lost.

There was no obvious damage to stainless steel queen excluders either.

I'm not even sure that the formic acid will come into direct contact with the polystyrene because the bees have covered the whole interior surface with a thin layer of propolis. The vapour might (does) permeate the brood cappings, which are a mixture of wax, pollen and propolis, but will it penetrate pure propolis?

You might be interested in a Beecraft advertorial from 2013 www.nodglobal.com/uploads/1/4/3/7/.../beecraft_article-may_2013.pdf

 

[BeeBeeKa]

No, I didn't notice anything untoward. No piles of dead bees outside, and no queens lost.

Interesting, thanks. How would you describe the weather conditiones at wich you emplemented MAQs?

You might be interested in a Beecraft advertorial from 2013 www.nodglobal.com/uploads/1/4/3/7/.../beecraft_article-may_2013.pdf

Thanks again, but i would prefer to rely on reviews of independent sources (more or less like you, probably ) than on advertisement of any kind

 

[Erichalfbee]

My modern beekeeping boxes got two strips each in July. Warm and sunny. Zero counts so far, no dead bees at time of treatment. The colonies that got one strip are having to be treated now with thymol. Note I am on 14x12 though.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

My modern beekeeping boxes got two strips each in July. Warm and sunny. Zero counts so far, no dead bees at time of treatment. The colonies that got one strip are having to be treated now with thymol. Note I am on 14x12 though.

Hmmm. Interesting... But does not coincide with my theory then

No bother. I`m always ready to condemn the wrong ones... and create the new ones

 

[BeeJayBee]

Interesting, thanks. How would you describe the weather conditiones at wich you emplemented MAQs?

Sunny and dry.

My records tell me it was 20C in the shade on the day they were treated.

Accuweather for my town tells me temps rose to 25C four days later and then dropped back to 20C.

i would prefer to rely on reviews of independent sources

There's some non-NOD sourced stuff on their own page, dating back to 2009.http://www.nodglobal.com/research.html Check Randy Oliver's findings (USA, uses wooden Langstroth) http://scientificbeekeeping.com/miticides-2011/

If I remember I will ask a friend who treated their poly hives recently. As far as I know it all went without incident. They use standard Langstroth poly, mine are jumbos.

@ Erichalfbee - One of the info sheets says that if you use half the dose (one strip) with a high mite count you may need to repeat "within 2 months’ time" because it will only give 75% knockdown. It looks as if you've confirmed this. http://www.nodglobal.com/uploads/1/4/3/7/14371138/knockdown_vs._knockout.pdf

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Thanks BeeJoyful. I do not know what was wrong with poly hives of a friend of mine, but he showed me pictures of dead bees on his mobile phone... Strange story. He is experienced beekeeper but applied MAQs first time...
Here is another idea: if he applyed it in september then he probably feeded bees with thymolised syrup. That could create a cumulative effect. … Why on poly hives though? Anyway it`s a version that needs to be cheked. I`ll speak to him on a meeting soon. Thanks again for info

 

[itma]

... then he probably feeded bees with thymolised syrup. That could create a cumulative effect. …

Thymolated syrup has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with varroa control.
An unfortunately common misapprehension.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Thymolated syrup has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with varroa control.
An unfortunately common misapprehension.

I did not state it does (I read some reports that it could take place though... )
The coal is relatively safe material, but in combination with saltpeter and sulfur… The cumulative effect is astonishing

 

[oliver90owner]

Not without considerable comminution, intimate mixing and a source of ignition.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Thanks BeeJoyful. I do not know what was wrong with poly hives of a friend of mine, but he showed me pictures of dead bees on his mobile phone... Strange story. He is experienced beekeeper but applied MAQs first time...
Here is another idea: if he applyed it in september then he probably feeded bees with thymolised syrup. That could create a cumulative effect. … Why on poly hives though? Anyway it`s a version that needs to be cheked. I`ll speak to him on a meeting soon. Thanks again for info

From NOD website

9) Subject: Feeding during treatment.
Q) Can I feed during treatment?
A) Feeding of any type (frame, hive-top feeder) is not recommended during treatment. Feeding may commence after the 7-day treatment is finished.​

What else was different, other than one lot of hives being poly and one lot being cedar?

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Not without considerable comminution, intimate mixing and a source of ignition.

Ohhh... It`s details allready

 

[BeeBeeKa]

What else was different, other than one lot of hives being poly and one lot being cedar?

That`s a problem. I do not know many particulars.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I treated two double brood hives this year. Both had a couple of hundred of dead bees outside 24 hours later. Open floor. no insert, bee escape open. Temp no greater than 22 degrees. A week later one lost it's queen with no queen cells, the other queen had stopped laying and there was no larva, just eggs present.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

A week later one lost it's queen with no queen cells, the other queen had stopped laying and there was no larva, just eggs present.

Poly?

 

[Erichalfbee]

the other queen had stopped laying and there was no larva, just eggs present.

Well at least she was laying again

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well at least she was laying again

Indeed, lets hope she remains fertile.


Using Formic Acid renders the drones dry and impotent, maybe it could also effect the fertility of the queens to some degree.

 

[Fatbee]

I wasn't aware of the impact on drones. Worth remembering to not apply MAQS too early in the season then.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nor too late - looks like it's better not to use it at all!!