re-queening question

[menteth]

Hello everyone,
This forum is great.
Bring on the collective brain.

I have had CBPV in my apiary this year.
An awful illness.

I have 8 hives 14x12

(Hive 1 contracted it and died out within 10 days. It hit them really hard. RIP).

Hive 2 contracted it and it's been more of a slow burner. Maybe their genes are stronger.
I followed advice. Opened the floor, empty super under, etc....

It has stabilised ie bees have stopped dropping onto the floor.
Now a small nuc size.

Time to re-queen.

However, looked inside yesterday. It is now queenless, with laying workers. She must have died of plague.
I've bought a new buckfast queen.

My question to you all:
Shall I shake out the laying workers (30m away or out of sight) and then introduce a new queen at the same time?

or

Should I shake out, and wait a day or two to introduce a new queen?

I'm Looking for the best chance of acceptance.

Thanks all

 

[Amari]

My sympathies. - Three of my hives had CBPV last year. One recovered well, two were weakened and succumbed to wasps.

I cannot understand your two options. You presumably have drone-laying workers in a 'small nuc size'. If you shake them out there will be too few (elderly) bees left to nurture the Q and her brood. Best to make up a nuc using brood, bees and stores from one of your healthy colonies.

 

[menteth]

Hi Amari and all.
The hive that I'm talking about, was a huge and strong colony. The die back has left them the size of a small nuc. The die off seems to have stabilised.
They are queenless now.

My worry was that if I introduce a new queen, the laying workers will kill her.
The idea of the shake out, is to get rid of the laying workers, as they'll not be able to find their way home (as they've never foraged and have no sense of direction).

This would give the queen a better chance of acceptance?

Maybe I'm just complicating matters, and should just introduce a new queen (in a cage).
I just want the best chance of her survival.

Thoughts?

I have this infected hive miles from the others. Isolation ward. Transferring brood is a bit hard. Slightly wanting to keep this CBPV case as an experiment.

There seems to be quite a bit of CBPV about this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don’t shake out.
They will kill an introduced queen. They think they are queenright.
The laying workers can fly as well as any other bee I would euthanise them. Sorry.

 

[Amari]

Yes, that colony is doomed whatever you do. No point trying to save it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Shall I shake out the laying workers (30m away or out of sight) and then introduce a new queen at the same time?

Why? stop listening to those idiots who think laying workers can't fly.
Accept that this colony is doomed as well - shaking out may well end up with homeless bees finding their way into other colonies and spreading the virus. I hate to say this but a bit of four star is the only solution

 

[Murox]

Why? stop listening to those idiots who think laying workers can't fly.
Accept that this colony is doomed as well - shaking out may well end up with homeless bees finding their way into other colonies and spreading the virus. I hate to say this but a bit of four star is the only solution

Just yesterday a beekeeping acquaintance sent me some links to a UK beekeepers association clearly stating that they don't fly and details of shaking out and putting the boxes on then same site.
Common sense says all bees can fly anyone seen any papers to the contrary?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Just yesterday a beekeeping acquaintance sent me some links to a UK beekeepers association clearly stating that they don't fly and details of shaking out and putting the boxes on then same site.
Common sense says all bees can fly anyone seen any papers to the contrary?

I'm afraid that with some people, there is no way of removing the blinkers and bringing them in to the 21st century.
There is no evidence to say that laying workers can't fly. It's just the usual crowd repeating the same BBKA propagated mantra.
There is no cure for stupid unfortunately

 

[JamezF]

I'm afraid that with some people, there is no way of removing the blinkers and bringing them in to the 21st century.
There is no evidence to say that laying workers can't fly. It's just the usual crowd repeating the same BBKA propagated mantra.
There is no cure for stupid unfortunately

I'd have thought that it wouldn't even be a difficult proposition to test. Nor even to apply a little knowledge to come up with what appears to be the most probable answer: a non-laying worker can fly; laying workers are much smaller than swarming queens (and in my experience impossible to tell from non-laying workers, though I'm prepared to be wrong there) with a larger wing-size to body-size ratio; swarming queens can fly; even laying queens can fly (though perhaps not so well).

Why would one therefore assume that the obvious conclusion is that laying workers couldn't fly? As you say, quite possibly due to the lack of an anti-stupid pill.

James

 

[ericbeaumont]

now queenless, with laying workers

https://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayin...rs will lay,are virtually impossible to find.

 

[The New beekeeper]

The idea of the shake out, is to get rid of the laying workers, as they'll not be able to find their way home (as they've never foraged and have no sense of direction).
Is this true? Don't the laying worker bees fly out? If not, then they would not be able to find their way back

 

[Blunt Spike]

The idea of the shake out, is to get rid of the laying workers, as they'll not be able to find their way home (as they've never foraged and have no sense of direction).
Is this true? Don't the laying worker bees fly out? If not, then they would not be able to find their way back

What were they doing before they became laying workers? Sitting around saying one day I will be queen?

 

[The New beekeeper]

What were they doing before they became laying workers? Sitting around saying one day I will be queen?

I thought the foragers go out. do foragers become laying workers?

 

[Erichalfbee]

as they've never foraged and have no sense of direction).

Worker bees take orientation flights from three days of age.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The idea of the shake out, is to get rid of the laying workers, as they'll not be able to find their way home (as they've never foraged and have no sense of direction).
Is this true?

No - a total fallacy

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought the foragers go out. do foragers become laying workers?

yes

 

[Erichalfbee]

No - a total fallacy

And why it’s still taught ad nauseam is a wonder.

 

[The New beekeeper]

Worker bees take orientation flights from three days of age.

Thank you

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And why it’s still taught ad nauseam is a wonder.

the usual suspects who haven't read anything published after the queen died
Victoria that is
Or maybe Anne

 

[drex]

Laying workers that are shaken out will probably find their way into other colonies, if allowed in. More than likely those colonies will have good laying queens and brood, the pheromones from both of which suppress the workers ovaries.