Laying worker question..

[Andrew2000]

My bees swarmed a while ago and I left them for as long as I could to create a new queen. This didn’t happen and I now have laying workers (all drone, multiple eggs, poor laying pattern etc).

I’ve read many options to resolve this but opted for the ‘introduce a frame of eggs/larvae every few days from another hive’ option as forums suggest more successful than the ‘shake the frames off’ option.

My hive was strong and has 3 supers on which the worker bees are slowly eating and adding eggs to. I’m wondering whether the smell of the fresh larvae in the brood box is being lost in the hive and being less effective (so far still laying workers after 10’days of adding brood).

Any advice on whether to clear then take the supers off or leave on. If I take them off what to do with them bearing in mind some have worker eggs and larvae in.

Thanks in advance

 

[Ian123]

I doubt a frame of brood will stop laying workers but I’d expect or hope they would raise some queen cells on the added frame?

 

[Antipodes]

My bees swarmed a while ago and I left them for as long as I could to create a new queen. This didn’t happen and I now have laying workers (all drone, multiple eggs, poor laying pattern etc).

I’ve read many options to resolve this but opted for the ‘introduce a frame of eggs/larvae every few days from another hive’ option as forums suggest more successful than the ‘shake the frames off’ option.

My hive was strong and has 3 supers on which the worker bees are slowly eating and adding eggs to. I’m wondering whether the smell of the fresh larvae in the brood box is being lost in the hive and being less effective (so far still laying workers after 10’days of adding brood).

Any advice on whether to clear then take the supers off or leave on. If I take them off what to do with them bearing in mind some have worker eggs and larvae in.

Thanks in advance

You could pop those supers with brood onto your other colony if you want. You need to be sure there is no disease in them however.
I would be surprised if they will make any queen cells with one frame of brood. You may need two to three, which you probably have already done. If you still see no queen cells then perhaps a shake out and then a split down the track?

 

[Anduril]

I’ve read many options to resolve this but opted for the ‘introduce a frame of eggs/larvae every few days from another hive’ option as forums suggest (so far still laying workers after 10’days of adding brood).

My questions are, how many hive do you have to act as resource hives to save one hive?
How many brood frames have you added within the 10 day period?
I would remove the supers and place them on other hives providing they are disease free. For the brood pheromone to work you will need around 6 frames of brood along with the workers on the brood frame. If you have 3 more hives take 2 frames of brood and bees from each, (this way the bees won't fight), but this will reduce your honey crop for this year and will stop to an extent the other hives from swarming. It works but you are at the mercy of the next queen getting mated. I've thrown out 2 hives this year, but created 6 nucs with swarms and splits which could have been another option if you have enough hives or bait hives.

 

[Antipodes]

My bees swarmed a while ago and I left them for as long as I could to create a new queen. This didn’t happen and I now have laying workers (all drone, multiple eggs, poor laying pattern etc).

I’ve read many options to resolve this but opted for the ‘introduce a frame of eggs/larvae every few days from another hive’ option as forums suggest more successful than the ‘shake the frames off’ option.

My hive was strong and has 3 supers on which the worker bees are slowly eating and adding eggs to. I’m wondering whether the smell of the fresh larvae in the brood box is being lost in the hive and being less effective (so far still laying workers after 10’days of adding brood).

Any advice on whether to clear then take the supers off or leave on. If I take them off what to do with them bearing in mind some have worker eggs and larvae in.

Thanks in advance

One other thing I feel I should say. I'd just be a little careful adding brood too regularly from your other hive to the hive you are attempting to save, as I've seen the queenright workers turn on their queen in such circumstances...I suppose they don't know, despite all their efforts, that the continual reduction in brood and brood pheromones isn't the queen's fault.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Accept they're doomed and shake them out.

 

[madasafish]

I have succeeded with:
frame of open brood .
then add mated queen in cage, leave tabs on for three days, for bees to become used to her, then undo tabs and let normal fondant eating take place.
But not as far gone as your colony

 

[Blunt Spike]

Accept they're doomed and shake them out.

A few years ago we had this issue after losing a queen and the bees refusing to make QCs from test frames. The better half said she was going to reverse the LW situation by giving frames of brood, but the cost to the donor colony was huge... much weakened they superseded so we ended up with 2 weak colonies and fast approaching August. I think you'd be much better of cutting your loses, build up another colony and do a split later on if they're not big enough now.

 

[Andrew2000]

My questions are, how many hive do you have to act as resource hives to save one hive?
How many brood frames have you added within the 10 day period?
I would remove the supers and place them on other hives providing they are disease free. For the brood pheromone to work you will need around 6 frames of brood along with the workers on the brood frame. If you have 3 more hives take 2 frames of brood and bees from each, (this way the bees won't fight), but this will reduce your honey crop for this year and will stop to an extent the other hives from swarming. It works but you are at the mercy of the next queen getting mated. I've thrown out 2 hives this year, but created 6 nucs with swarms and splits which could have been another option if you have enough hives or bait hives.

Thanks for all the replies.

I have one other hive which is bursting at the seam so taking a frame every now and then has been useful in swarm prevention.

So far I’ve added 3 frames over 10 days, the most recent one yesterday. No sign of a queen cell on the other frames yet.


Based on the advice, I’ll remove them from the supers and put the supers on the healthy hive and probably feed the hive with laying workers some sugar syrup.

I’ll keep adding frames for now, is there any merit in combining techniques and doing the shaking out method as well??

 

[ericbeaumont]

is there any merit?

If you want the experience, by all means spend time fiddling to get a result, but I agree with JBM, your best option is to shake out.

An alternative came to mind (as I sit here making frames) that I have used in the past:

Before you shake out, remove the LW colony and park it elsewhere in the apiary. In its place put a BB of brood + the queen from your bursting colony. If it's on DBB, just move over one BB + the queen. Shake out the LWs and divvy out the BB frames where you see fit.

Let the remaining half of your Q - bursting colony have the 3 supers and allow them to make EQCs. Once sealed, make up a couple of nucs as insurance and leave one in the BB.

Check again after 7 days that one only is in there, and check for eggs after 3 weeks. Well before then extract the supers, as maturing bees will make honey, having been relieved of brood duties.

Do this on a flow & on a flying day.

 

[Anduril]

As you only have one other hive, I would shake them out.