Maqs killing Bees

[steve1958]

Whilst using the Maqs varroa treatment this year, from a total of 10 hives I lost 2 queens. Out of the other 8 Hives ain all but one case the Queen stopped laying and the Brood reduced in size from around 8 frames to about 2.

So for me this year Varroa hasnt been my major problem, Maqs has.

I did follow the instructions to the letter.
The weather here in the South has remained warm, and the Bees are still out collecting pollen (Ivy).
They had plenty of space (2 supers), so I cant see what else I could have done.

Outcome: Next year avoid Maqs

 

[Tom Bick]

You seem to have two similar threads running so just to repeat myself someone at my association treated ten hives and lost six queens I think she used them last year with no problems but not this.

 

[WoodenBeam]

MAQs does kill off young larva & queens are likely to go off lay - this is well documented so should be expected. That said colonies I treated this year with MAQs seemed to go into overdrive following treatment. For me the major positive is the short treatment period in comparison to other products - all swings and roundabouts really

 

[psafloyd]

Surely the higher temperatures we have had this year may be to blame?

 

[enrico]

I say it again, use MAQS while there is still time to get a new queen, it is not an autumn treatment!
E

 

[alldigging]

Surely the higher temperatures we have had this year may be to blame?

Instruction say
Outside daytime
temperatures should be between 10 – 29.5°C
on the day of application

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries/anomacts

I know we have a couple of thermometers in our apiary and they show we're frequently over the local weather forecast temperature because of the spot its in.

 

[itma]

I say it again, use MAQS while there is still time to get a new queen, it is not an autumn treatment!
E

We will have to say it more frequently!

The principal advantage of this treatment is that it can be used with honey on the hive.
I maintain that it should be used that way.
And not after harvesting.


I also wonder whether at least some of the 'lost Qs' might simply have been off-lay…

 

[itma]

…
I know we have a couple of thermometers in our apiary and they show we're frequently over the local weather forecast temperature because of the spot its in.

I hope your thermometers are in the shade. Otherwise they are wasted.

 

[alldigging]

I hope your thermometers are in the shade. Otherwise they are wasted.

We have one in the shade and someone nailed a big one to the front of the fence for all to see.

 

[oliver90owner]

Apart from the lost queens, the brood has not been lost, other than the usual, expected result in the queen going off-lay for several days.

Think about it just a bit.

You don't give a time scale, but of those 8 frames of brood, there may have been nearly four which were already capped. Many, maybe all, of those will have emerged, so not lost. Some open brood may have been lost, I can't even guess. If she were off-lay for a week and/or if you have not counted eggs, your estimations may be rather exaggerated.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I say it again, use MAQS while there is still time to get a new queen, it is not an autumn treatment!
E

The principal advantage of this treatment is that it can be used with honey on the hive.
I maintain that it should be used that way.
And not after harvesting.

Which then brings in the issue of knocking back varroa as much as possible to get a good stock of healthy 'winter bees' laid up in the autumn. One mention on here already of having to treat again with thymol in the autumn after summer MAQS

 

[Fatbee]

Steve,
When you say you lost two queens what do you mean by this? Hive gone totally queenless? Emergency cells raised? Supersedure cells?

I treated mine in mid August - later than I planned - and since then out of 6 colonies I only had a couple reduce lay and all picked up again and are going well. I did have 1 colony swarm a few days after treatment and I had suspicions MAQS may have triggered it because seemed too much of a coincidence but no evidence to support this.

 

[einsteinagogo]

I used MAQS this year earlier than I did last year (had no issues last year), this year I did not see the 100-200 dead bees outside the hives like last year, treated the same, same hive volumes (BB, plus 2 supers), same OMF, closed cover board, reduced entrance.

Last year I treated late, Mid Sept (reminded myself this year to bring it forward) to August.

Six Hives treated, just opened up, and placed on top of frames as described.

Two colonies absconded and left with 24 hours they were gone! They Left stores and brood. (no QCs, nothing, just up and left!), oddly it was the two colonies at the end of the row!

All gone in both hives. (unless a goblin turned up in the night and stole my bees!).

The other four colonies, have really expanded, since treating.

Next year, I will treat even earlier with MAQS.

 

[VEG]

Used MAQS this year and last with no problems at all.

 

[oliver90owner]

Probably not oddly but with a simple explanation why it was those two particular colonies. Perhaps those two colonies were the only ones on solid floors and were in full sunshine far longer than the others, as well as perhaps being sheltered from the wind?

 

[VEG]

Perhaps the queens would have died anyway

 

[betterbee]

Has anybody tried to cage the queen in some cage that would protect her from the fumes for the first few days ?
m

 

[maddydog]

Treated one colony last year in early September. Huge mite drop but all BIAS killed/removed and the Q went off lay for a week or so. Strongest colony this year though!

Haven't treated any colonies this year as no need. Will use MAQs again when necessary but only earlier in the summer.

 

[Fatbee]

I think there lies the point Maddydog some short term pain for long term gain. Key to treat with dosage as per instructions but to do it soon enough in season to allow time for corrective measures if it causes any queen issues. I certainly wouldn't use it this late in season. Bees need to be left in peace with no stresses.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Surely the higher temperatures we have had this year may be to blame?

we have a couple of thermometers in our apiary and they show we're frequently over the local weather forecast temperature because of the spot its in.

I treated mine in mid August - later than I planned - and since then out of 6 colonies I only had a couple reduce lay and all picked up again and are going well.

Perhaps those two colonies were the only ones on solid floors and were in full sunshine far longer than the others, as well as perhaps being sheltered from the wind?

It becomes more and more obvious imho, that success on treatment with MAQs greatly depends on a temperature…And ( my 5 cent to add)not just an outside, but an inside hive temperature also. A friend of mine treated his 30(apporox.) hives in the beginning of September with MAQs, all in accordance with instructions. Some of his hives are – the wooden langstroth, while majority is poly. So the wooden once did not experience any serious problems during the treatment, while the poly ones have thrown out hundreds to thousands of dead bees next morning after implementation. My friend thought it`s something to do with chemical reaction between polystyrene and formic acid, but I believe that this reaction simply can not happen ( formic acid has ions while polystyrene has not, so the ion- exchange ( chemical reaction)is simply not possible) ). What I sincerely believe is that the microclimate inside his poly hives was significantly warmer than in wooden ones (normally it`s subject to design and a build quality of course), so that if it went over 29.5`C inside the hive – that`s what could possibly cause such a dramatic consequence. IMHO