Mann Lake "Hybrid National"

[thorn]

It's typically American, showing a lack of understanding of the world outside its borders. Disney set up in northern France because the map showed it to be fairly central to western Europe, and didn't check the climate nor realise that Spain is very much more sunny, and a major holiday destination for all European nations. Costco sells pizzas that are too big for the average British oven.
What percentage of Americans have passports? Well, there's Mike....

 

[Sanctuary]

Doh! I wish I had found this thread first.

I made the mistake of ordering three perspex inner hive covers from Mann Lake. They were advertised and invoiced as British National covers. But they measure 450 x 411mm, not 460 x 460mm as one would expect for British National standard.

I'm still waiting for a response from Becky at Mann Lake to my last email asking politely if I have misunderstood and how do they fit a British National hive?

Strangely these covers now seem to have disappeared from view on their website.

Bah.

Given the time, cost and effort of sending them back, I'm wondering what are my options?
- build a sub-frame for these covers
- don't waste my time, buy something that's proper-size from somewhere else
- avoid Mann Lake in the future?

 

[dn170221]

I think you could reasonably expect them to replace or refund.

 

[B+.]

I think you could reasonably expect them to replace or refund.

The sale of goods act only requires them to be of merchantable quality. So long as they stated clearly that they were not compatible with the National, they didn't mislead you and don't have to refund the money. Its a customer service thing whether they choose to do so or not

 

[itma]

...
I made the mistake of ordering three perspex inner hive covers from Mann Lake. They were advertised and invoiced as British National covers. But they measure 450 x 411mm, not 460 x 460mm as one would expect for British National standard.

I'm still waiting for a response from Becky at Mann Lake to my last email asking politely if I have misunderstood and how do they fit a British National hive?
...
Given the time, cost and effort of sending them back, I'm wondering what are my options?
- build a sub-frame for these covers
- don't waste my time, buy something that's proper-size from somewhere else
- avoid Mann Lake in the future?

VERY simple.
They have not sent you what you ordered or were invoiced/charged for.
That is entirely their problem.
They need to arrange collection at their expense if they want the things back.
And if they don't or can't supply what you ordered you are entitled to a full refund including the delivery charge. If they don't refund you promptly, you can get your credit card company to do a "chargeback".
If you need confirmation just Google
distance selling regulations

I'd suggest putting the collection plus refund or replace instruction in writing to them (email should do nowadays - but do ask them to confirm receipt of that email).

 

[daroco]

Making the frames would be too much for most beekeepers.
And I don't expect any other manufacturers to rush to 'adopt' the format.

I've got almost all Hybrid hives - and generally quite pleased with them. The frames are easier to make than a National frame. My biggest grip is the dummy board they are supplied with is almost impossible to remove!

 

[denise washington]

I got 4 brood and 4 supers will not get anything else from them will need loads of wood filler for them to sit flush on top of each other

 

[itma]

I've got almost all Hybrid hives - and generally quite pleased with them. The frames are easier to make than a National frame. My biggest grip is the dummy board they are supplied with is almost impossible to remove!

Ah, but how does it compare to a Commercial hive frame?
What did you find to be "easier" - the plastic foundation?

I had occasion to go through a Mann Lake Langstroth a few days ago. Long story but basically helping newbies who had a swarm the day before they were due to go on holiday ...
Anyway, the Mann Lake Langstroth dummy boards could stun an ox (or a bison). They are thick, heavy (solid wood) and neatly take up all the spare space beyond the frames. That and the Langs short lugs make them a PITA to remove ... I expect the Hybrid's dummies are similar.


/// Interestingly, the coverboard had a thin rim and entrance on one side (but its a TBS hive!) and a thicker (one inch?) rim on the other neatly filled with some US kingspan-like foam (without the foil). I didn't have a chance to do anything about the open top entrance/vent. Maybe next time.
Despite the plastic foundation, I don't think that was the cause of the swarming.

 

[Sanctuary]

More Doh! I need to apologise unreservedly to anyone from Mann Lake reading this, it wasn't them I got the sheets from, it was Modern Beekeeping.

Like on this page:
http://www.----------------.co.uk/item/208/british-national-inner-hive-cover

But the rest of the story remains the same.

Fortunately, there's a happy ending. Becky (at Modern Beekeeping) has offered a full refund, their courier is collecting the covers tomorrow, and they will amend their website to make it clear that the sheets are not for a "standard" British National.

Phew!

 

[patl]

and they will amend their website to make it clear that the sheets are not for a "standard" British National.

Ah, so it was for a 'British National' poly hive then I assume. I couldn't figure what kind of BN hive it could be for with those dimensions.

 

[oliver90owner]

I would advise against any assuming, where anyone is claiming 'National hive' and dimensions are not strictly to the relevant British Standard.

Mismatches will inevitably cause trouble with compatibility and likely need other parts, or modifications to keep bee space requirements.

Many call any box, that will accept BS National frames, a 'National' (with the exception of the famed WBC).

 

[daroco]

Ah, but how does it compare to a Commercial hive frame?
What did you find to be "easier" - the plastic foundation?

Anyway, the Mann Lake Langstroth dummy boards could stun an ox (or a bison). They are thick, heavy (solid wood) and neatly take up all the spare space beyond the frames. That and the Langs short lugs make them a PITA to remove ... I expect the Hybrid's dummies are similar

I don't have any experience with commercialS so can't make a comparison. The plastic foundation does seem easier - although the bees are noticeably slower to draw it out. But the frame itself simply slots together much faster than the frames for wax foundation I have in some other pieces of kit.

Perfect description of that dummy board though!

 

[mjt68]

Ah, but how does it compare to a Commercial hive frame?
What did you find to be "easier" - the plastic foundation?

I had occasion to go through a Mann Lake Langstroth a few days ago. Long story but basically helping newbies who had a swarm the day before they were due to go on holiday ...
Anyway, the Mann Lake Langstroth dummy boards could stun an ox (or a bison). They are thick, heavy (solid wood) and neatly take up all the spare space beyond the frames. That and the Langs short lugs make them a PITA to remove ... I expect the Hybrid's dummies are similar.


/// Interestingly, the coverboard had a thin rim and entrance on one side (but its a TBS hive!) and a thicker (one inch?) rim on the other neatly filled with some US kingspan-like foam (without the foil). I didn't have a chance to do anything about the open top entrance/vent. Maybe next time.
Despite the plastic foundation, I don't think that was the cause of the swarming.

I have 3 ML Langstroths and quite like them. Don't use dummy boards so can't comment. I'm really happy with the plastic foundation in wooden frames - bees seem perfectly happy to draw it out.

 

[itma]

Ah, so it was for a 'British National' poly hive then I assume. I couldn't figure what kind of BN hive it could be for with those dimensions.

The Modern Beekeeping 'national' polys may be well liked by those that use them, but they are about the least "compatible" (standard) of all the polys.

Internally, they take only 10 hoffman frames.
They are top bee space.
And then there is the rim detailing ... (which is probably responsible for those coverboard dimensions ... )