Foundationless beekeeping

[Torq]

I got sick of putting in fresh foundation in my brood boxes and it warping so much that the comb drawn was uneven, patchy and not covering the complete frame.

So I made up a couple of deep frames with a 5cm starter strip and two rows of fishing line as reinforcement. One week later I have 2 frames of beautifully drawn completely flat comb. So I won't be wasting money on wired deep foundation any more!

 

[Tremyfro]

I saw on utube someone had used strips from an orange juice carton....instead of strips of foundation.

 

[Teemore]

I used a thin fillet of offcut timber in s few frames in a bait hive (Just held in place by the slip on the top bar) and these were some of the first frames drawn out by a cast that took up residence. They did however start first with the frames with starter strips of wax in place. Of three bait hives that have attracted one or more swarms this season, the bees have started on the prewired frames with starter strips etc in preference to using drawn comb which I had placed to the outside of the bait hives. The fact the drawn comb is to the outside will have had some influence on how quickly the bees moved onto the comb but since one of the swarms attracted was a prime with laying queen (clipped as well....) There is some other factor at work given that the queen did not go onto the new comb to start to lay. It is often stated that queens love to lay in new comb and swarm experience this year backs that up.

 

[BMH]

Terrific Tom ... As you know, I too am running my hive foundationless. My biggest concern was (initially) that commercial foundation potentially contained contaminants - and there were even reports that some foundation contained paraffin wax, I had no desire to see such things presented to my bees.

I started my beekeeping journey with a swarm and just one (borrowed) frame of drawn comb and four foundationless frames - the hive was dummied down to this size and I used the triangular strip of wood with a layer of (Th*rnes best organic) beeswax painted on to them. I'm running 14x12 frames, wired with three horizontal stainless steel wires - I made my own simple frames this year but I bought some Th*rnes seconds in the sale for next season. For the cost it was barely worth making my own.

It was only a moderate sized swarm but they drew out the first four frames in less than a week - I then just kept adding a couple of frames, usually at the ends, but keeping the hive dummied down. It was a bit of a faff as it meant I was constantly making or modifying crown boards to fit the brood nest size but a small price to pay for seeing the comb (and the quality of the wax) develop. I fed them with about 5 litres of 1:1 syrup when they were building the first four combs but after that let them find their own building materials.

I haven't found any problems with them building anything other than straight comb and my bees have, mostly, filled out the frames right to the edge (and because I made a mistake when I built the hive) sometimes 2" on the bottom of the frames as well.

Other than this, my experience, has been very close to everything you have so well described. My bees are gentle and well mannered, they have been disease free and as of the end of the season devoid of varroa. I put all of this down to luck but having read your account I am more inclined to think that bees allowed to behave as they see fit may be less stressed and able to counter the various adversities they face more effectively.

My hive expanded to 13 frames of drawn comb and was very full of bees by the end of August - they stopped drawing comb around the middle of August (well - they added a half frame after that inspection but it remained empty until they really started to build up the honey stocks for winter).

The drone situation was very similar to yours but around the end of August the drone population reduced dramatically and I noticed that the bees had converted a lot of the previous drone comb to worker size - and then filled the cells with honey. I used drone cell uncapping regularly to check the varroa situation (although I never found any !).

I didn't have any supers on the hive this year and I've left them all the honey that they have stored ... the hive was quite full by September although stores dipped a little at the end of August and I fed them some 2:1 to keep the stores levels up. I understand that the 'August Gap' is not unusual. If there is honey left in Spring then I will take some frames out then, for extracting, and put them back empty. Perhaps keeping one for my bait hive.

I have no experience of using foundation - except in my studies and visits to other apiaries and the association apiary but I'm not on a crusade. Foundationless has been a very positive experience for me and I would encourage anyone thinking about it to give it a try. If your comments about bee behaviour are anything to go by (and reflected in my bees) then for this alone it is worth considering.

Thanks for spending the time to relate your experience - it's valuable coming from the perspective of someone who has more years of beekeeping than I and having used foundation as well - so you are able to draw a comparison.

I will certainly be continuing foundationless in the coming season - whilst there may be some loss of honey production I am, like you, not that concerned. In my case, having nothing to measure honey production against, I won't miss what I have never had.

I'm happy - the bees appear happy - what more could a beekeeper wish for ?

My foundationless frames from the arrival of my swarm to the last inspection of the season can be viewed here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/sets/

Tin hat on ....

Great pics in your flickr link!

Really interesting!

 

[BMH]

What I do is I try to run my hives double brood and when converting I simply placed a brood box full of foundationless frames under the full brood box and as the bees expanded down into the new brood box they started to build comb.

Great information.

Just thought I would point out the importance of the above comment.

In my stupidity I put the frames above the brood box and fed.

They start expanding upwards and obviously ignored the starter strips.

Realised after a couple of days and rearranged and now drawing comb very nicely below the BB.

 

[bontbee]

Great pics in your flickr link!

Really interesting!

I spotted the waste from your hole production line! Enterprising use of a waste product