Making foundation

[pargyle]

Couple drops to a washing up bowl .anyway I have fixed a few in frames,given them a hard tug and they seem pretty solid tbh

Yes ... it hardly needs any to do the job ... but it does help. Glad the foundation is working. I bought one of these in the summer ... I haven't used it yet ... sturdy bit of kit though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beeswax-...Press-Beekeeping-Equipment-Goods/174483193266

 

[CaptainCymru]

Yes ... it hardly needs any to do the job ... but it does help. Glad the foundation is working. I bought one of these in the summer ... I haven't used it yet ... sturdy bit of kit though.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Beeswax-...Press-Beekeeping-Equipment-Goods/174483193266

Looks the biz , I need to modify mine a bit to make it easier .might bolt it to some ply . So long as it does the job .I will be reusing it after the crush and strain !

 

[pargyle]

Looks the biz , I need to modify mine a bit to make it easier .might bolt it to some ply . So long as it does the job .I will be reusing it after the crush and strain !

Yes ... nicely made in Ukraine ... I got a deal as well ... it's a Langstroth size so will allow just about any UK frame size. I've got loads of wax and I've always run my frame foundationless but as all the wax is from my colonies I'm going to try some in my supers this year. When I get round to making some !

 

[CaptainCymru]

Yes ... nicely made in Ukraine ... I got a deal as well ... it's a Langstroth size so will allow just about any UK frame size. I've got loads of wax and I've always run my frame foundationless but as all the wax is from my colonies I'm going to try some in my supers this year. When I get round to making some !

Theres something quite satisfying about making it .It doesnt mention the cell size howeve on mine but matters not in the super anyway I suppose.

 

[plain_hunt]

A beekeeper friend of mine made me a 14x12 silicone foundation maker, and yes, it does come out a bit thick, even when I think I’ve only poured a minimal amount. Our division bought a set of rollers last year. I can easily make flat sheets of wax, and the rollers work beautifully. They are VERY heavy though, they don’t need to be moved very much! A good winter occupation, and I have a lot of wax to use up.

 

[philipm]

I always found the home made sheets to be quite brittle,the ones made with rollers are much stronger.I did make some without any pattern on at all the bees didnt seem to have any problem.

 

[gmonag]

The rolling process tempers the wax. If the foundation is just cast, it will be brittle.
If you make plain sheets, then roll them, they will not be brittle.

 

[CaptainCymru]

I always found the home made sheets to be quite brittle,the ones made with rollers are much stronger.I did make some without any pattern on at all the bees didnt seem to have any problem.

So I found that on first couple goes ,wax was brittle and a bit crumbly. So I soaked the silicone mould in hot water first ,not boiling but as hot as my tap will allow .the sheets seem fine now to an extent I made my first rolled candle from one.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Also , anyone see any issues of inserting the foundation sheet like this? Wondering If the remainer will still be drawn straight

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Also , anyone see any issues of inserting the foundation sheet like this? Wondering If the remainer will still be drawn straight

Yes. Point of the hexagon upwards. That's the way bees do it.

With such big frames I think you have to add wires. Others may disagree but until the wax is joined to the frame on all sides you will have to be careful not to tilt the frame flat. The comb may break. Maybe 3 horizontal wires.

I think using the silicon mould is better once it's warmed up so running it under the tap a good idea.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Also , anyone see any issues of inserting the foundation sheet like this? Wondering If the remainer will still be drawn straight

no - whichever way up you put the foundation the bees will draw it

 

[pargyle]

Also , anyone see any issues of inserting the foundation sheet like this? Wondering If the remainer will still be drawn straight

Yes (or No ?) ... as JBM above .. they will probably start drawing their own comb down from the top bar either side of your foundation and then start to incorporate the foundation in the comb - but they will tear down the cell imprint and re build with their own .. with the points of the hexagon up and down. Try and work with them not against their natural ways.

It's easy to wire the frames with a couple of horizontal wires - you don't need to embed it in the foundation - the bees will bury the wires as they make the comb. I usually have two horizontal wires in my foundationless 14 x 12 frames and the bees build the comb just the same and incorporate the wires into the structure. It gives it a bit more support when the comb is fresh and still soft ... by the end of the season it's not an issue unless you are spinning out brood frames of honey.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

no - whichever way up you put the foundation the bees will draw it

. . . but why make it difficult? Give them a flat sheet of wax and they will manage. Alledgedly.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

. . . but why make it difficult? Give them a flat sheet of wax and they will manage. Alledgedly.

I wonder how they manage in the wild without us giving them a template to start with?

 

[pargyle]

. . . but why make it difficult? Give them a flat sheet of wax and they will manage. Alledgedly.

They manage quite well without foundation as well ! EDIT: Ahh JBM beat me to it ....

 

[Parsonage Bees]

They manage quite well without foundation as well ! EDIT: Ahh JBM beat me to it ....

Oh yes. They're quite happy with what they create. If you ever want to get the frames out of the box tho' . . .. . . .. .

 

[pargyle]

Oh yes. They're quite happy with what they create. If you ever want to get the frames out of the box tho' . . .. . . .. .

View attachment 24348

I've been foundationless since I started ... you get the occasional wonky comb - but what you don't do is give them a box of empty frames and let them get on with it - because they will get very creative as they have done there. If you give them drawn frames either side of the ones that are foundationless - or even foundation either side - then they will normally draw reasonably straight comb.

Nothing much wrong with these .. a few pockets and twists and turns but reasonably straight and without any assistance from foundation:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/99514363@N06/albums/72157636257703495

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Yes, this was the first swarm I'd ever caught, 3 years ago. Took a couple of attempts to get them to stay in the box so i just fed them and left them to it with DN5? frames. All I had. The frames ended up not pushed together after I moved them home and didn't want to open them again. (They never were very friendly) This gave them license to get all inventive.

 

[pargyle]

Yes, this was the first swarm I'd ever caught, 3 years ago. Took a couple of attempts to get them to stay in the box so i just fed them and left them to it with DN5? frames. All I had. The frames ended up not pushed together after I moved them home and didn't want to open them again. (They never were very friendly) This gave them license to get all inventive.

It's an absolute wonder to behold when they are left to decide how they are going to build their own comb without anything to guide them ... I love to see it ... just not in my hives !!

 

[CaptainCymru]

It's an absolute wonder to behold when they are left to decide how they are going to build their own comb without anything to guide them ... I love to see it ... just not in my hives !!

Ha got a full national brood box of it at moment, was naive to think by nadiring with a full set of undrawn frames would be fine, doh! Not keen to make that mistake again .will grab some wire and the drill and continue with my home made sheets !