Making an insulated cover for the hive

[Monbees]

Love taking a perk at the bees walking about the top bars in the winter

I seem to remember from previous posts that you also insulate poly hives with cosies. Have l remembered right?

 

[pargyle]

Thriving or surviving comes to mind?

Precisely .....

 

[pargyle]

Consequent to "Google Search" Derek Mitchell I have no need to reinvent the wheel.....this is almost exactly what I plan to do.

Derek was probably the first person to start using PIR Insulation in beekeeping ... I've heard him and Elaine talk a number of times and the first time I came across his work was a year or so in to my beekeeping and what he said very much confirmed what I was seeing in my hive (but couldn't explain) from my measurements - mine were very crude and rudimentary compared to Derek's incredibly complicated hive sensors. But in my ignorance I had reached the same conclusion - high humidity levels and the ability to keep the hive at or near to the bee's ideal of >28 degrees C seem to suit the bees and keep varroa infestations at manageable levels.

If you look further there are other beekeepers who are finding this ... Look up the Zest hive - another highly insulated and warm hive - Bill Summers claims to have no varroa in his zest hives ... and remains treatment free. I can't claim my colonies are varroa free but ... one day I will build a Zest style hive and see if I can replicate Bill's success.

There's a really interesting thread from 2014 for those who are interested in seeing some of Derek's earlier thoughts.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/warning-treatments-and-insulation.31631/
And here's where he started in 2011:

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/pu-hive-with-dpgf.12099/
He's come a long way in the last 10 years and what he says makes a lot of sense (although some of the science goes way over my head these days !).

 

[Erichalfbee]

I seem to remember from previous posts that you also insulate poly hives with cosies. Have l remembered right?

Yes 50mm PIR. Take roof off and cover with cosy.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Thriving or surviving comes to mind?

or despite of rather than because of!

 

[Swarm]

or despite of rather than because of!

Seen too many thriving colonies in non insulated hives.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Seen too many thriving colonies in non insulated hives.

That’s true but mollycoddling you’re bees? Does it do any harm? All you are doing with a cosy is turning your wooden hive into a poly.

 

[pargyle]

That’s true but mollycoddling you’re bees? Does it do any harm? All you are doing with a cosy is turning your wooden hive into a poly.

The debate will continue ad-infinitum I'm afraid.

I've proved to my own satisfaction that bees have a desire to control their environment and seem to prefer (from my previous measurements of temp and humidity) a warm and moist environment inside the hive ie: >28 degrees C and > 85% Humidity. If they didn't prefer this then, surely, they would not bother heating the box and they would simply cluster. (Obviously, I'm talking about times when the ambient temperatures are below this but I've seen hive temps up in the low thirties on some days in winter several degrees above the outside). I don't see my bees clustering very often and when they do it seems to be a fairly loose cluster.

If this is what my bees want then my view is that I should do anything and everything possible to help them achieve this and at the same time use as little energy as possible doing it. Just seems perfectly logical.

I do recognise that there's a bit more effort required - and it may be too much for those with large numbers of colonies - there will come a point where time expended vs resultant benefits, when you have a limited time to attend your colonies, does not make commercial sense. However, as a hobby beekeeper with (currently) 8 colonies I can afford to lavish a little more attention on my bees and if my additional attention gives the bees more than they need - well, that's fine.

 

[Speybee]

The debate will continue ad-infinitum I'm afraid.

I've proved to my own satisfaction that bees have a desire to control their environment and seem to prefer (from my previous measurements of temp and humidity) a warm and moist environment inside the hive ie: >28 degrees C and > 85% Humidity. If they didn't prefer this then, surely, they would not bother heating the box and they would simply cluster. (Obviously, I'm talking about times when the ambient temperatures are below this but I've seen hive temps up in the low thirties on some days in winter several degrees above the outside). I don't see my bees clustering very often and when they do it seems to be a fairly loose cluster.

If this is what my bees want then my view is that I should do anything and everything possible to help them achieve this and at the same time use as little energy as possible doing it. Just seems perfectly logical.

I do recognise that there's a bit more effort required - and it may be too much for those with large numbers of colonies - there will come a point where time expended vs resultant benefits, when you have a limited time to attend your colonies, does not make commercial sense. However, as a hobby beekeeper with (currently) 8 colonies I can afford to lavish a little more attention on my bees and if my additional attention gives the bees more than they need - well, that's fine.

I recall being told a few years back at a bee meet that “bees don’t die of cold but they die of isolation starvation”
I’m not taking any chances.....I insulate (but intrigued with the ‘tea cosy’ external insulation photo) internally between dummy board and outer wall of hive but more important for me, is prevention of isolation starvation by rolling out the fondant over the entire area of the brood nest.

 

[Antipodes]

Heat will kill them but not the cold here. They produce excessive heat when being moved for instance. I felt that heat from them today and was glad for the vented migratory lid and mesh entrance blocker when moving this split.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I recall being told a few years back at a bee meet that “bees don’t die of cold but they die of isolation starvation”
I’m not taking any chances.....I insulate (but intrigued with the ‘tea cosy’ external insulation photo) internally between dummy board and outer wall of hive but more important for me, is prevention of isolation starvation by rolling out the fondant over the entire area of the brood nest.

Bees die of isolation starvation if the winter cluster is too small. Ie if the colony is small and in a big space.

 

[Apiarisnt]

The paper is being distributed and is authored by Angela J. Tollerson and Gary W. Martin, University of Montana, Master Beekeeping Course. There are plenty of citations of source authors and one of them is named as a "Mitchell". I see he has put a lot of related information about on the internet, so maybe this is repetition and/or bound to be controversial?

"Angela Tollerson
5 settembre alle ore 20:37
Group: I temporarily pulled the file down of my research paper on various hive compositions for wintering in the North. The corresponding author noticed a mistake in my definition of dew point and ambient temperature intersections. The professor allowed me to fix the mistake and submit a revision with fixed graphs. (Does not change the outcome at all, it was minor, but definitions need to be solid). On the off chance he requests more revisions during the grading period, I'm going to wait until it is polished and complete before posting again. I don't want to make you all weary with constant re-posts of multiple revisions, so I'll wait a bit. Hold tight!"

It will be interesting to see the paper when she puts it back up again

 

[madasafish]

Overwintering bees in S England is easy compared to say N Scotland where it is (a lot) colder, wetter and windier..

So wooden hives work well in S England the advantages of insulation may not be evident as they really are far less noticeable.

I know two ladies who overwinter bees at 1,000 to 1250 feet above sea level on the edge of the Peak District. Both either use poly hives or hive covers: colonies in Spring appear stronger and build up more rapidly

 

[fiat500bee]

Overwintering bees in S England is easy compared to say N Scotland where it is (a lot) colder, wetter and windier..

I'm sure that's generally correct, but we're very lucky here in the shadow of The Cairngorms where we usually get protection from the worst of the wet and live in an area known, perhaps surprisingly, for having a relatively mild climate and good numbers of sunny days, even in winter

I now realise that the forum has been "here" many time before, most notable on this thread; FAO DerekM. @derekm deserves thanks and praise for the research and dissemination of information he has done. It seems that five years ago at least, he had far more supporters than detractors.

I'm plodding on with preparations and I'm almost there with these simple, insulated covers which many others have made in the same way previously, but I took a few photos of the construction which mught be helpful for anyone else contemplating this job.

First the raw materials: I chose Kingspan TW50 450 x 1200mm (50mm thick PIR wallboards intended to be fitted in a blockwork cavity as it is constructed:



PU (polyurethane sealant)...far superior to silicone and acts as a strong adhesive as well as a sealant, aluminium foil tape (very sticky and thin, easily moulded in awkward places and Thompson's Roofseal (a thick, water-based, low odour paint designed for flat roof repairs....sticks to just about any surface and sets to a flexible, waterproof skin...no primers needed and easily overcoatable even after many years without any preparation.

The size of the sheets is relevant because the 450 dimension is exactly right to cover the height of two deep boxes which was right for my needs. But you could trim to any size you want or add empty boxes or ekes to accomodate this cover if you were overwintering on one box or a smaller combination. I am using Abelo boxes which are very precisely made; I secured a couple using masking tape and they acted as my jig for assembly.



I decided the simplest thing was to lap each side piece to the next so they are all the same cutting dimension. hence I needed 460mm plus a thickness of insulation (50mm) and I added another 5mm to accomodate minor errors and still have a tight fit......so 515mm. I don't have a bench saw but used my power saw to get the neatest cut; you could use a hand saw quite easily. The accuracy of cut isn't too important if you measure the cut line for the two pieces you get from each sheet from opposite ends; you can use the factory cut edge where you bond the pieces together.





To join the pieces I didn't need skewers, nails or anything other than a generous helping of sealant. I assembled on a very flat floor and pushed tight against my "jig".



Within a few hours it was all set fairly solid and I taped the edges. Then it was out to the garage for the first of possibly three coats of the Roofseal. It was applied by roller for speed and can be worked into loose parts of the foil to seal everything.



It is not designed to be seen and therefore looks a bit sh*te, but looks aren't everything ( as I know all too well ). The subdued appearance will help the hive blend into the drab winter landscape rather than being a shiny beacon to attract unwanted attention. Here it is after the first coat.




I intend to leave the inside upainted but reading back through the old thread I realised that I ought to seal the inner joints, which I did using the same PU sealant.



All that's left to do is the additional coats of paint and then to think about the roof treatment; if I don't add something more up there, even with a polyhive roof I run the risk of the roof being the coldest part of the hive. Once it's installed I'll show the result.

 

[pargyle]

It's a good instructable ... Derek did have one on here, many years ago, but I think in the last version of the forum the photos sometimes got deleted after a time. Your method works well and the end product looks really good. Although you missed out the bamboo skewers, for those who follow, I would say add them in .. for the little amount they cost they do provide an added rigidity to the structure - You just push them in at right angles to the joint, two or three on each corner. Not all adhesives are as robust as that you have used and the skewers are belt and braces. The aluminium tape over the cut edges is essential as the exposed foam reacts quickly to UV light and weather generally and crumbles to dust, the cut foam does not paint easily whilst the aluimium foil will take a finish..

Good job all roiund ... reminds me I need to make a new solar wax melter as mine is beginning to look a little worse for wear after 8 years outside ....

 

[madasafish]

Our local wasps are currently attacking any exposed edges on a 10 year old hive cover which needs repair... (why I have no idea.. too late for nest building)

 

[robmort]

Fiat500bee, how is it covered on top? Removable top or..?

Edit: Oops, saw you're still thinking about it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Fiat500bee, how is it covered on top? Removable top or..?

It’s a box with one face missing. You take the hive roof off and replace it with the jacket

 

[fiat500bee]

how is it covered on top? Removable top or..?

Funny you should ask.

Today I put the bee-cosies together and successfully fitted one of them to a hive....ironic when we have had a day that I guess must have hit the mid twenties centigrade. Here pictured on an unoccupied hive on the patio. The Abelo floor has a handy built-in stop with the buttresses beside the entrance, which will prevent the cosy from ever slipping down and blocking the bees in.



I decided that 50mm PIR was too thick for messing about with for the roof as it was a bit more complex and I wanted a lip in it for security and rain deflection. After two visits I realised that B&Q really couldn't be arsed getting a 2400 x1200 sheet of 25mm Recticel insulation from the sixteen in stock, so I went to the local SIG depot and got it for £16 rather than £25.
I cut a piece which fit snugly inside the top of the cosy and then bonded this to an upper piece which overhung the sides of the cosy by 20mm. When the sealant had cured I then made a rim using offcuts which were also bonded on using the PU sealant.





You will note that I have reinforced the edge where a retaining strap will be used to keep the hive secure in winter.

I got some wider, 75mm aluminium tape from Toolstation and covered all cut edges as well as re-doing the top faces of the cosy; this will prevent the lid and sides from sticking together over time.
I'm removing the standard crownboards from the hive and replacing with clear ones. There was a danger that I was heading for a roof which was again cooler than the walls. So an additional loose square of insulation fits above the crownboard. With my other hive I only have a deep crownboard which was designed to fit a feeder. This has a 70mm void above which I filled with sections of offcut board arranged vertically and bonded together intpo three groups; this means the roof is a full 120mm thick. The thickness with the standard crownboard is 75mm.





The job has taken more time than I anticipated but it was fairly cheap to do and is neater and more convenient to use than I expected. But it's wind and rainproof as well as it's primary job of insulation. The jury is out on whether or not I've overdone it and will end up with stewed bees after the winter; I'll report back with honesty next Spring.

 

[user 6228]

nice to see some one continuiing with PIR. The increased insulation creates a increased pressure differential owing to the hot air buoyancy and you will find you need to seal the roof to body otherwise you wont realise the full thermal potential and the bees will suffer increased water vapour loss.