Quantcast

Making an insulated cover for the hive

Beekeeping Forum

Help Support Beekeeping Forum:

fiat500bee 

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
364
Reaction score
257
Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2
nice to see some one continuiing with PIR. The increased insulation creates a increased pressure differential owing to the hot air buoyancy and you will find you need to seal the roof to body otherwise you wont realise the full thermal potential and the bees will suffer increased water vapour loss.
Thank-you Derek. If you could feel the interference fit of those roof components you'd consider it OK. Some "recipes" have suggested leaving clearance around the hive but I've gone for a tight fit as the void created would have negated the whole exercise. ;) But in any case I'm doing to place a vapour-barrier immediately above the crown-board and sandwich it as the roof is put in place.
 

Erichalfbee 

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
18,954
Reaction score
967
Location
Ceredigion
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
7
Thank-you Derek. If you could feel the interference fit of those roof components you'd consider it OK. Some "recipes" have suggested leaving clearance around the hive but I've gone for a tight fit as the void created would have negated the whole exercise. ;) But in any case I'm doing to place a vapour-barrier immediately above the crown-board and sandwich it as the roof is put in place.
I left half an inch all round (except the top obviously) It allows for movement if the wood and lets me lift the cosy off when needed.
 

fiat500bee 

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
364
Reaction score
257
Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2
I left half an inch all round (except the top obviously) It allows for movement if the wood and lets me lift the cosy off when needed.
You're right and I'm making it hard for myself but prepared for the awkwardness.😁
 

madasafish 

Queen Bee
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
237
Location
Stoke on Trent
Hive Type
langstroth
Number of Hives
8x Langstroth, a few Lang nucs,1x TBH, and about 17 mating mini nucs
I left half an inch all round (except the top obviously) It allows for movement if the wood and lets me lift the cosy off when needed.

I can assure you after 6 years of using hive cosies, you WILL regret making the tolerances too tight. You WILL occasionally place the CB slightly not square or bang it when putting on the cosy. Result.. it jams and you have to take it off again.

Been there, walked away, seen cosy at an angle , have to start again... And that is with 10mm clearances on all sides.. (I believe we converted to metric 50 or so years ago :cool: )
 

Finman 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
25,583
Reaction score
156
Location
Finland, Helsinki
Hive Type
langstroth
Derek was probably the first person to start using PIR Insulation in beekeeping ... I've heard him and Elaine talk a number of times and the first time I came across his work was a year
Was it the year 2012?

My mentor used stryfoam boards to Insulate hives 60 years ago.

Swedish Nacka Company sold industrial polyhives about 40 years ago.

I do not know, from where Polyhive got his hives 35 years ago.
 
Last edited:

fiat500bee 

Banned
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
364
Reaction score
257
Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
2
I can assure you after 6 years of using hive cosies, you WILL regret making the tolerances too tight. You WILL occasionally place the CB slightly not square or bang it when putting on the cosy. Result.. it jams and you have to take it off again.

Been there, walked away, seen cosy at an angle , have to start again... And that is with 10mm clearances on all sides.. (I believe we converted to metric 50 or so years ago :cool: )
I will have to learn to love being stung. :ROFLMAO: :banghead:
I don't intend to leave them on during the main inspecting season.

I thought about it carefully and came to the conclusion that unless the PIR was largely in contact with the outer surface of the hive it was going to be much less effective.

An air-gap would need to be very tightly sealed off at the bottom of the cosy, otherwise the air within the gap would be at external temperature. The vapour permeating through the walls and joints of the hive, particularly if made of wood, would be lost to the bees and perhaps worse, it would condense within the void.

This is a factor which is carefully calculated in to all modern housing designs for humans, where an impermeable vapour barrier must be fitted to prevent moisture from condensing on cold surfaces. So I took my cue from having built/rebuilt three houses and gave the bees as good a deal as I have myself. The main difference from our own house is that we have 125mm of insulation rather than 50mm and we don't sit watching TV above an open-mesh floor. :laughing-smiley-014PS. Mind you, I don't think the bees do that but I may be wrong.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Messages
10,904
Reaction score
613
Location
Fareham, Hampshire UK
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
Was it the year 2012?

My mentor used stryfoam boards to Insulate hives 60 years ago.

Swedish Nacka Company sold industrial polyhives about 40 years ago.

I do not know, from where Polyhive got his hives 35 years ago.
PIR is not polystyrene - it is polyisocyanurate expanded foam with an aluminium foil facing. I don't disagree that polystyrene hives have been in use for much longer and I accept that keepers in Finland may have been ussing polystyrene for insulation. Indeed, insulation with a variety of materials are well known for even longer.

However, I think Derek was the first person (as far as I can see) to use PIR to make hives and make hive cosies with it.
 

madasafish 

Queen Bee
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
237
Location
Stoke on Trent
Hive Type
langstroth
Number of Hives
8x Langstroth, a few Lang nucs,1x TBH, and about 17 mating mini nucs
I will have to learn to love being stung. :ROFLMAO: :banghead:
I don't intend to leave them on during the main inspecting season.

I thought about it carefully and came to the conclusion that unless the PIR was largely in contact with the outer surface of the hive it was going to be much less effective.

An air-gap would need to be very tightly sealed off at the bottom of the cosy, otherwise the air within the gap would be at external temperature. The vapour permeating through the walls and joints of the hive, particularly if made of wood, would be lost to the bees and perhaps worse, it would condense within the void.

This is a factor which is carefully calculated in to all modern housing designs for humans, where an impermeable vapour barrier must be fitted to prevent moisture from condensing on cold surfaces. So I took my cue from having built/rebuilt three houses and gave the bees as good a deal as I have myself. The main difference from our own house is that we have 125mm of insulation rather than 50mm and we don't sit watching TV above an open-mesh floor. :laughing-smiley-014PS. Mind you, I don't think the bees do that but I may be wrong.


I suspect the biggest loss of heat for a wooden hive is wind and evaporation of water in the wood.. (Latent heat etc), Even with larger gaps, most of the air near the top will be largely trapped in a cosy and the heat going nowhere. With UK winters wet and windy.. DM's calculations for heat losses for wooden hives - done in dry conditions IIRC - would be much higher :devilish:

Lifting off my cosies is easy even for wimps like me
 

Finman 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
25,583
Reaction score
156
Location
Finland, Helsinki
Hive Type
langstroth
However, I think Derek was the first person (as far as I can see) to use PIR to make hives and make hive cosies with it.
Perhaps he is.

His hive mat8erial and models are not suitable for honey production. In our Woods ants eate such hives in one summer. They Make PIR full of tunnels next week.

You know the story about hard polystyrene, which is suitable to bee hives and which is not.

Derek had lots of ideas, which do not work in practice. His ideas against 30 years experience of professional beekeepers in your climate. You climate is very easy to bees.
 
Last edited:

derekm 

Queen Bee
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
6,034
Reaction score
64
Location
xyz
Hive Type
national
Perhaps he is.

His hive mat8erial and models are not suitable for honey production. In our Woods ants eate such hives in one summer. They Make PIR full of tunnels next week.

You know the story about hard polystyrene, which is suitable to bee hives and which is not.

Derek had lots of ideas, which do not work in practice. His ideas against 30 years experience of professional beekeepers in your climate. You climate is very easy to bees.
Finman,
Actually my ideas actually go against 54 years of UK beekeeping practice not 30 years .(if we take Wedmore 1946). I've had 8 seasons of PIR no trouble with ants , just Beekeepers fixated on doing things, the same old way, using spurious arguments and Bluetits
 
Last edited:

Murox 

Queen Bee
Joined
Aug 31, 2017
Messages
2,116
Reaction score
305
Location
Campbeltown Scotland
Hive Type
other
Just like old times.... this will end badly ~ best get the Vodka out, it's going to be a long winter ...
I prefer the local acqua vitae - uisge beath (said a bit like wish-kə ba-ha) - but you're right, a long winter ahead, think I'll get some cask strength in for a change.
 

madasafish 

Queen Bee
Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
8,979
Reaction score
237
Location
Stoke on Trent
Hive Type
langstroth
Number of Hives
8x Langstroth, a few Lang nucs,1x TBH, and about 17 mating mini nucs
I prefer the local acqua vitae - uisge beath (said a bit like wish-kə ba-ha) - but you're right, a long winter ahead, think I'll get some cask strength in for a change.

When I've had a couple of quintuple G&Ts (anything less than a quintuple must be gnats' piss) I can handle neat whisky. (When I was brought up in Macduff the nearest distillery was two miles down the road...)
 

Latest posts

Top