Starved Buckfast colony

[Antipodes]

..unfortunately for my bees, (on brood and a half), was that the plentiful supply was in the next hive along.

If it makes you feel better, I lost one today in an out apiary to starvation. Or most of them anyhow. Just a few days too late I guess. Many dead, some were still barely alive with heads in cells, some very lethargic on the floor and a few similarly torpid on the frames....and the expensive queen...alive but barely!

Great...she is alive, but seeing as it was only 10 degrees, I had better get her out and warm her up quick smart. Out of my pocket came the little queen cage for such emergencies...but no candy or ear plugs to plug the hole. Oh well, get her in the cage anyhow, she can barely move, and so into the pocket of my trousers inside the bee suit. Done. Now to carry the hive of dead and dying bees up the steep hill to get them home to save some and deal with them. Many stops up the hill, but got to the vehicle and in went the hive and the sun would warm them up in there. Now to get that queen out. You guessed it. Oh no! Not in the cage. Gingerly pulled my pocket inside out...not there either. Ok, she will be down the leg of my suit, around the ankle. Careful, careful...nope, not there either. Nor in the other leg, nor in the rest of the suit. Not in the wellies, not on the ground....searched on the side of the road next to the vehicle on hands and knees for a good five minutes. Gone.

Suit back on and back down to the apiary to continue checking the other hives for stores. More searching on the ground there just in case. Half an hour later , after lots of very ripe self deprecatory language, I was back at the vehicle. Off with the bee suit veil and the beanie, and... plop. Landing on the ground in front of me was the queen! Alive and undamaged. Into the hive this time.

Got them home and then set off a robbing frenzy with my messy attempts to revive them with sugar syrup. Closed it all up and left them. About an hour later I went to check if the robbing had stopped, and there, on the syrup bottle was the queen! How did she get out?? This time I picked her up, brought her inside and into another queen cage, this time plugging the end. Next thing, she was crawling around the outside of the cage! Ok, wooden plug missing from one end of the cage....

More fun and games tomorrow if I can keep her alive overnight....don't like my chances

 

[user 20297]

Just too many variables for that to be accurate.

I completely agree with that now I have experience. But I believe I did read words from at least one respected contributor on this forum, to the effect that well prepared bees will easily manage in one box.
I went wrong with a lot of factors.....most of them making presumptions about how to winter bees from things I had read. But as there must be an explanation as to where all the bees' stores went (they did have a full hive in early October). I assume that they carried on producing brood for longer and later than I expected; thus the stores will have dwindled before winter struck hard.

Next winter I'm hoping to manage colony size down to comfortably fitting in one box (local bees) and then a complete change of policy with more generous autumn feeding and fondant. Lesson learned.

 

[user 20297]

More fun and games tomorrow if I can keep her alive overnight....don't like my chances

I don't know whether to laugh or cry about that story...made me smile in any case. Thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it makes you feel better, I lost one today in an out apiary to starvation. Or most of them anyhow. Just a few days too late I guess. Many dead, some were still barely alive with heads in cells, some very lethargic on the floor and a few similarly torpid on the frames....and the expensive queen...alive but barely!

Great...she is alive, but seeing as it was only 10 degrees, I had better get her out and warm her up quick smart. Out of my pocket came the little queen cage for such emergencies...but no candy or ear plugs to plug the hole. Oh well, get her in the cage anyhow, she can barely move, and so into the pocket of my trousers inside the bee suit. Done. Now to carry the hive of dead and dying bees up the steep hill to get them home to save some and deal with them. Many stops up the hill, but got to the vehicle and in went the hive and the sun would warm them up in there. Now to get that queen out. You guessed it. Oh no! Not in the cage. Gingerly pulled my pocket inside out...not there either. Ok, she will be down the leg of my suit, around the ankle. Careful, careful...nope, not there either. Nor in the other leg, nor in the rest of the suit. Not in the wellies, not on the ground....searched on the side of the road next to the vehicle on hands and knees for a good five minutes. Gone.

Suit back on and back down to the apiary to continue checking the other hives for stores. More searching on the ground there just in case. Half an hour later , after lots of very ripe self deprecatory language, I was back at the vehicle. Off with the bee suit veil and the beanie, and... plop. Landing on the ground in front of me was the queen! Alive and undamaged. Into the hive this time.

Got them home and then set off a robbing frenzy with my messy attempts to revive them with sugar syrup. Closed it all up and left them. About an hour later I went to check if the robbing had stopped, and there, on the syrup bottle was the queen! How did she get out?? This time I picked her up, brought her inside and into another queen cage, this time plugging the end. Next thing, she was crawling around the outside of the cage! Ok, wooden plug missing from one end of the cage....

More fun and games tomorrow if I can keep her alive overnight....don't like my chances

That’s a brilliant tale. The things we do!

 

[madasafish]

I completely agree with that now I have experience. But I believe I did read words from at least one respected contributor on this forum, to the effect that well prepared bees will easily manage in one box.
I went wrong with a lot of factors.....most of them making presumptions about how to winter bees from things I had read. But as there must be an explanation as to where all the bees' stores went (they did have a full hive in early October). I assume that they carried on producing brood for longer and later than I expected; thus the stores will have dwindled before winter struck hard.

Next winter I'm hoping to manage colony size down to comfortably fitting in one box (local bees) and then a complete change of policy with more generous autumn feeding and fondant. Lesson learned.

All depends on the SIZE of the box and the bee type. So that's two variables to start with.

Unfortunately beekeeping has too many variables to be dogmatic on many things. Doing things by rote = a recipe for failure.

 

[user 20297]

All depends on the SIZE of the box and the bee type. So that's two variables to start with.

Unfortunately beekeeping has too many variables to be dogmatic on many things. Doing things by rote = a recipe for failure.

Ignoring advice = recipe for failure.
Taking too much advice = recipe for failure.
Using your own judgement as a newcomer = recipe for failure.

 

[madasafish]

Ignoring advice = recipe for failure.
Taking too much advice = recipe for failure.
Using your own judgement as a newcomer = recipe for failure.

That is what makes successful beekeeping a journey of adventure...

 

[user 20297]

That is what makes successful beekeeping a journey of adventure...

 

[North End Bees]

But as there must be an explanation as to where all the bees' stores went (they did have a full hive in early October).

You said the hive next door was chock full of stores?

 

[Beelosser]

I agree with @rolande that it makes sense to ensure they have access to fondant, regardless of apparent heft weight.
My colonies are taking in huge amounts of pollen, but seemingly very little nectar at present and they are consuming fondant at an alarming rate. If they don’t need the fondant I can just remove it, if they store it ( which I doubt) I can remove the frames for nucs.

How can you tell they are or aren’t taking in nectar!

 

[user 20297]

You said the hive next door was chock full of stores?

Yes, but I don't think the two things are related; I watch the bees enough that I think I had a good chance of spotting robbing and we didn't seem to have a wasp problem.. The hives were separated by around 100 metres at that time and the Buckfast were significantly stronger. I just think didn't let them get at enough sugar.

I sneaked a (panic) check on my locals yesterday. They also have fewer stores than I expected but still have around three frames in a supered shallow. But they will be getting some insurance fondant. They are bringing in pollen today in that frenzied way, tripping over themselves despite the raging wind we have here.

 

[user 20297]

How can you tell they are or aren’t taking in nectar!

Good point. At least a half of the bees seem to be coming back with no pollen today. Some of them might be getting water, but that would still mean a lot of wasted journeys...not the way bees work.

Although this is getting slightly off the point of the thread, it's very helpful to consider the implications of this just now in avoiding another colony of bees having a burnout.

 

[Arfermo]

That’s a brilliant tale. The things we do!

Very interesting - but it reminds me of when I found a hive some 5 years ago had been on the brink of being decimated by wasps. All the brood and stores were goner and a big lump of dead bees were on the ground 12 inches down. But I revived them by making up a warm and weak mixture of sugar syrup, sticking it in a 1/2 ltr plant sprayer (you know the things I mean) and sprayed the remaining very weak bees who almost instantly revived to the extent that after closing the entrance and copious feeding, the colony completely recovered and prospered. Simple solution to a simple problem that I doubt anybody here will want to even know about?

 

[BugsInABox]

Very interesting - but it reminds me of when I found a hive some 5 years ago had been on the brink of being decimated by wasps. All the brood and stores were goner and a big lump of dead bees were on the ground 12 inches down. But I revived them by making up a warm and weak mixture of sugar syrup, sticking it in a 1/2 ltr plant sprayer (you know the things I mean) and sprayed the remaining very weak bees who almost instantly revived to the extent that after closing the entrance and copious feeding, the colony completely recovered and prospered. Simple solution to a simple problem that I doubt anybody here will want to even know about?

My very 1st package got to this state, falling off combs etc - I couldn’t work out how to get them to take syrup in tbh. I sprinkled them with icing sugar which revived them.

 

[Ian123]

Here’s proper buckfast 4 frames of brood and 2 absolutely packed with food in a poly to boot

 

[Antipodes]

Here’s proper buckfast 4 frames of brood and 2 absolutely packed with food in a poly to boot

No one seems to have Buckfast bees here and I don't think you can get them..What are they actually? I thought they had a fair bit of Italian in them perhaps....

 

[gmonag]

No one seems to have Buckfast bees here and I don't think you can get them..What are they actually? I thought they had a fair bit of Italian in them perhaps....

That's a good question.

 

[hemo]

They went into winter with an eleven-frame, BS deep with a matching shallow of honey stores above. There was a bit of brood on a couple of those shallow frames at the last time I checked inside, which was late September/early October.

Their demise may be more to do with these couple of sentences, esp the brood bit. It sounds like not enough winter bees may have been produced, the Q may have been crowded out by stores ?
The starvation may be just not enough bees to keep warm ?

The lack of any stores could it be down to robbing ?

 

[user 20297]

Their demise may be more to do with these couple of sentences, esp the brood bit. It sounds like not enough winter bees may have been produced, the Q may have been crowded out by stores ?
The starvation may be just not enough bees to keep warm ?

I get what you mean, but I see I've explained badly. The brood in the shallow was additional...there was also plenty in the deep. It looked like things had gone the opposite way, maybe too many bees produced and not enough stores.

 

[hemo]

O.k that may well put a different light on the story then and it is possible they may have ate them selves out of home or enough so that they became separated from any that may have remained.