Making an insulated cover for the hive

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fiat500bee

House Bee
Joined
Jul 5, 2020
Messages
362
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Location
Nairn, Highland
Hive Type
National
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This was being discussed elsewhere this morning......a wrap made from solid, 50mm Kingspan. I'm ready to get on with it but now my mind has been boggled as I've seen a suggestion that you keep the front of the hive facing the winter sun and don't insulate that side so that it gets the benefit of natural warming.

There's too many options in beekeeping. :banghead:
 
This was being discussed elsewhere this morning......a wrap made from solid, 50mm Kingspan. I'm ready to get on with it but now my mind has been boggled as I've seen a suggestion that you keep the front of the hive facing the winter sun and don't insulate that side so that it gets the benefit of natural warming.

There's too many options in beekeeping. :banghead:
No point. You either cover the hive or you don’t. What happens when the winter sun moves off the side? What happens when it’s cloudy or raining ?
 
Sun on the hive, enticing the bees to break cluster and go outside ? Not something I would want.

Actually, mine fly on most sunny days during the winter ... if it's dry and somewhere above freezing there's always a few venture out. They really don't cluster a lot in my poly hives and our relatively temperate climate down here on the South coast of England - I have clear crown boards and even on the coldest days in winter there are bees wandering about. I spent several years checking temperature and humidity in the hives and it's quite surprising how much heat they generate and the temperature in the hive was always several degrees above the ambient temperature outside, retaining that heat seems to me to be the best thing you can do to help the bees. In addition, those of us using highly insulated hives find that the bees don't consume anything like the stores in cold hives. Clustering in hives deliberately kept cold uses a lot of energy and the risk is always isolation starvation or them simply running out of winter stores prematurely. II've never had a colony run out of stores in a well insulated hive.

For what it costs and the little effort it takes to make an insulated bonnet for a timber hive when they are sited in a cold(er) climate it's a no-brainer in my book. There's no engineering required - you join the insulation board with bamboo skewers (and if you want a permanent job - silicon or nomorenails in the joint). Job's a good 'un. Seal the joints and cut edges with aluminium tape and a coat of paint - I've got one that has lasted nearly 8 years outside now.

This was a really big colony that I had very early on - I'd run out of supers so I made a wooden one as they needed the space (14 x 12 + a super - never again !) and I made the cosy to go on the super and give me space on top for some slabs of insulation above the crown board. It still functions but it was transformed into my solar wax melter - did I say ? I hate wasting things !

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125609724@N03/albums/72157648733313429
And finally - I've quoted him many times in the past but for those new to the forum: Bill Bielby - a great and innovative Yorkshire beekeeper in his book (Published in 1972 ) Home Honey Production - at a time when 'keep'em cold' was the 'norm' said:

Page 43

"Losses of heat mean losses of honey;
thus, good insulation of hives is
essential. Through air currents carry
away heat and neutralise the benefits
of insulation. Just like every other
animal, the well-being of bees depends
on warmth and comfort, protection from
the elements and an adequate supply of
food.
"

and Page 44

"For most economical wintering, hives
should be highly insulated and com-
pletely draughtproof
. "

50 years on and there are still some beekeepers who remain unconvinced of the benefits of insulating and draughtproofing hives. Just how long does it take for the penny to drop ?

If you can find a copy of Bill Bielby's little book for a quid buy it - it's an interesting read put together by a thinking beekeeper.
 

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This was being discussed elsewhere this morning......a wrap made from solid, 50mm Kingspan. I'm ready to get on with it but now my mind has been boggled as I've seen a suggestion that you keep the front of the hive facing the winter sun and don't insulate that side so that it gets the benefit of natural warming.

There's too many options in beekeeping. :banghead:
Think stable climate. Think about house and loft insulation.
 
It was 7C overnight a couple of weeks ago. No bees were moving - well moving very sluggishly.. My clearer boards did not work!

I leave my insulated covers on all year. They weight at most 2kg so even I as an elderly wimp can lift them off and on with ease...

For very tall hives.. think 5+ supers I use a small celotex roof which is easier to handle on top of a stepladder...

I do not buy nucs: just make them from 50mm celotex.. (yes I know I am a mean old.......)
 
I do not buy nucs: just make them from 50mm celotex.. (yes I know I am a mean old.......)

No you are not ... just sensible and economic by my reckoning. If you can save a few quid and have the ability (and building with celotex is Blue Peter level engineering) there's nothing to hate in making kit ... and actually, I find it quite rewarding when you see what you have made in action.
 
@ pargyle. I never said I didn't insulate and I never claimed the virtues of a cold hive. I said that I wouldn't want the sun coming onto my hives in winter. I agree with much of what you wrote but there are other factors. Like outside temps. of minus 20. And bee type. And absence of brood etc.
Horses for courses😨
 
And finally - I've quoted him many times in the past but for those new to the forum: Bill Bielby - a great and innovative Yorkshire beekeeper in his book (Published in 1972 ) Home Honey Production - at a time when 'keep'em cold' was the 'norm' said:

Page 43

"Losses of heat mean losses of honey;
thus, good insulation of hives is
essential. Through air currents carry
away heat and neutralise the benefits
of insulation. Just like every other
animal, the well-being of bees depends
on warmth and comfort, protection from
the elements and an adequate supply of
food.
"

and Page 44

"For most economical wintering, hives
should be highly insulated and com-
pletely draughtproof
. "

I've just been reading a freshly published, academic paper which, after all this time, says all of the above things and more.

The study found that the increased humidity in a well insulated hive in which the air was always kept above the dewpoint, proved disadvantageous to varroa.

Excess moisture was removed in the colder air which, being heavier than warm air, fell below the open floor. In a ventilated hive it leaves the hive in warmer air which rises from the top.

The report even questioned whether clustering was actually a necessity or just an undesirable response that cold bees must make to their environment.

Before bees became my latest obsession I had a period when Barn Owls were high on my list. Our house is named after them and young owls are raised every year in a box in our garden. Like bees, barn owls are reaching their northern limit up here and actually prefer warmer climates. So without the presence of humans and their structures and sometimes their active assistance, barn owls would struggle to exist...it's not easy for them anyway and winter kills off a lot of them...sound familiar? The point is, knowing the precariousness of life for these creatures in winter, why wouldn't we do our best to make them comfortable?

There's a strange contradiction in that the argument, ie. "we can't just let nature take its course and avoid pre-emptive treatments for bee pests and diseases" is turned on its head by some people when it comes to keeping them warm in the winter, "let nature take its course, cold is good for them."
 
@ pargyle. I never said I didn't insulate and I never claimed the virtues of a cold hive. I said that I wouldn't want the sun coming onto my hives in winter. I agree with much of what you wrote but there are other factors. Like outside temps. of minus 20. And bee type. And absence of brood etc.
Horses for courses😨
I don't think I suggested you did ... your post just prompted my comments ...
 
There's a strange contradiction in that the argument, ie. "we can't just let nature take its course and avoid pre-emptive treatments for bee pests and diseases" is turned on its head by some people when it comes to keeping them warm in the winter, "let nature take its course, cold is good for them."

It does take a long time for beekeepers to catch on to anything - unfortunately some of the ideas that caught on were not the ideas that you would have wanted ... and it then takes a few decades or six for the bad ideas to be debunked. Bees are such adaptable creatures that more or less anything you throw at them they survive - I suppose they would not have been around for millions of years if they weren't ? The problem is compounded by their ability to survive bad ideas and so some beekeepers point to their survival and say ... see ... it works. Yes ... it may work ... but is it what is best for the bees ?

You can take a horse to water ....
 
I've just been reading a freshly published, academic paper which, after all this time, says all of the above things and more.

The study found that the increased humidity in a well insulated hive in which the air was always kept above the dewpoint, proved disadvantageous to varroa.

Excess moisture was removed in the colder air which, being heavier than warm air, fell below the open floor. In a ventilated hive it leaves the hive in warmer air which rises from the top.

The report even questioned whether clustering was actually a necessity or just an undesirable response that cold bees must make to their environment.
Not Derek Mitchell by any chance ?
 
Not Derek Mitchell by any chance ?

The paper is being distributed and is authored by Angela J. Tollerson and Gary W. Martin, University of Montana, Master Beekeeping Course. There are plenty of citations of source authors and one of them is named as a "Mitchell". I see he has put a lot of related information about on the internet, so maybe this is repetition and/or bound to be controversial? ;)
 
The paper is being distributed and is authored by Angela J. Tollerson and Gary W. Martin, University of Montana, Master Beekeeping Course. There are plenty of citations of source authors and one of them is named as a "Mitchell". I see he has put a lot of related information about on the internet, so maybe this is repetition and/or bound to be controversial? ;)
Derek is a forum member. He has shared a lot of his work here.
 

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