Lavender smoker fuel

[tonybloke]

All this talk of " The bees like this and that smoker fuel"
is plainly daft!.
Bees are afraid of smoke as it precedes fire !
Aroma , coolness ,etc is for the comfort of the beekeeper.
The fuel that causes the bees to take up honey in preparation for an abscond the quickest would rank high in the list of preferences (by the beekeeper)?
VM

 

[drstitson]

Not entirely true VM - there are the odd colonies that don't like smoke so one might find that a gentler "brand" might cause less trouble.

 

[Skyhook]

All this talk of " The bees like this and that smoker fuel"
is plainly daft!.
Bees are afraid of smoke as it precedes fire !
Aroma , coolness ,etc is for the comfort of the beekeeper.
The fuel that causes the bees to take up honey in preparation for an abscond the quickest would rank high in the list of preferences (by the beekeeper)?
VM

I disagree. 'Like' is too strong a word, but bees have a much angrier reaction to some smokes than others, heat and tar content probably important. Mine get angry with corrugated cardboard, less so with egg boxes or dried grass.

If the bees do think smoke precedes fire, they are likely to be more upset by smoke that appears to be from a very close fire than from a distant one which would give them time to make proper preparations.

Hiowever the latest thinking seems to be that the effect of smoke is nothing to do with fire, it just blocks pheremone communication.

.

 

[victor meldrew]

Not entirely true VM - there are the odd colonies that don't like smoke so one might find that a gentler "brand" might cause less trouble.

Bees don't like (I use the word advisedly)smoke per-say !
The fear factor is still the prime mover but take your point about levels of reaction to it !
Where exactly is the 'Untruth ' in my post ?
I know that fear provokes the 'flee or fight' reaction ,even in insects !
How they react differs between colonies , quality of smoke aside
VM.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hiowever the latest thinking seems to be that the effect of smoke is nothing to do with fire, it just blocks pheremone communication.
.

Links to research on this would be useful.

 

[Headnavigator]

Have my smoker alight with lavender trimmings and dry white crumbly wood whenever I open up, but they seem to be better without smoke than with, so only use it to make myself feel better if I'm anxious (how silly is that?)
Have those who use smoke habitually actually tried without - or at least as I do with the smoker on one side downwind of the hive? I suspect many are taught as I was that smoke is a must and maybe haven't tried without?

 

[Cazza]

Have those who use smoke habitually actually tried without - or at least as I do with the smoker on one side downwind of the hive? I suspect many are taught as I was that smoke is a must and maybe haven't tried without?

Yes, many times over the years.
Sometimes I use water spray but generally prefer a little smoke rather than without.
Cazza

 

[victor meldrew]

The IMF have a few videos around featuring some easily handle able bees .
Some of the manipulations demonstrated are extreme !!.
The young lady beekeeper is clad in wholly inadequate clothing . No veil, no gloves etc.,
She however is never far away from her smoker .
She is totally at ease in everything she does. ( some manipulations are quite complex )
. Witnessing bees sticking their heads into cells at the application of a little smoke is enough to convince me that it's the smoke that signals this behaviour !
As for pheromone masking ? I doubt this very much , after all smoke rises, and shouldn't be pumped (directed) between frames anyway .
When bees are in the attack mode the alarm pheromone is in no way masked by smoke (short of setting the hive alight .
VM

 

[RoofTops]

As for pheromone masking ? I doubt this very much , after all smoke rises, and shouldn't be pumped (directed) between frames anyway .
When bees are in the attack mode the alarm pheromone is in no way masked by smoke (short of setting the hive alight .
VM

When a gas is released into a space the molecules shoot off in all directions at velocities of several hundred metres per second.

The visible part of the smoke will rise in the heat but what you see are particles, the gases released by burning will, as already mentioned, being going downwards, sideways and every which way.

What I don't know is whether it is the particles in the smoke or the gases produced by the combustion which the bees respond to. My guess is it is the gases and different woods might produce different gases, explaining why some woods seem better at influencing bee behaviour than others.

So the bees in a hive will very quickly detect and react to the smoke even if they are not actually enveloped in a cloud of it as the gases will seek them out even deep in the hive.

 

[BBG]

The IMF have a few videos around featuring some easily handle able bees .
Some of the manipulations demonstrated are extreme !!.
The young lady beekeeper is clad in wholly inadequate clothing . No veil, no gloves etc.,
She however is never far away from her smoker .
She is totally at ease in everything she does. ( some manipulations are quite complex )
. Witnessing bees sticking their heads into cells at the application of a little smoke is enough to convince me that it's the smoke that signals this behaviour !
As for pheromone masking ? I doubt this very much , after all smoke rises, and shouldn't be pumped (directed) between frames anyway .
When bees are in the attack mode the alarm pheromone is in no way masked by smoke (short of setting the hive alight .
VM

When stung, we pump several clouds of smoke over the sting site to mask the 'Here it is - sting' signals. Otherwise puffs are enough to quell the savage beasts.

Well, sometimes.

 

[Firefly]

The very experienced local beek (and BKA swarm collector) who sold me my nucleus asked his sister quite specifically for some of her (dried) lavender trimmings, put them in an egg cup, lit one end and blew over the top of them to direct the smoke at the bees - who obediently turned around and toddled back into the hive, so that he could insert the foam plug and hand it over

Not a double-blind trial, but I was impressed

 

[RoofTops]

You can buy lavender oil - not cheap but might be worth experimenting with a few drops on my normal wood shavings.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Hiowever the latest thinking seems to be that the effect of smoke is nothing to do with fire, it just blocks pheremone communication.

Links to research on this would be useful.

Sorry for butting in, but I'd bookmarked this article. Is it any use?

http://www.mendeley.com/research/al...ees-is-decreased-by-smoke-hymenoptera-apidae/

The application of smoke to honey bee (Apis mellifera) antennae reduced the subsequent electroantennograph response of the antennae to honey bee alarm pheromones, isopentyl acetate, and 2-heptanone. This effect was reversible, and the responsiveness of antennae gradually returned to that of controls within 10-20 min. A similar effect occurred with a floral odor, phenylacetaldehyde, suggesting that smoke interferes with olfaction generally, rather than specifically with honey bee alarm pheromones. A reduction in peripheral sensitivity appears to be one component of the mechanism by which smoke reduces nest defense behavior of honey bees.​

 

[victor meldrew]

Well there you go then
Not being of a scientific bent , I shall go on drifting smoke over my colonies whilst manipulating them
I do wonder from which part of the chemical reaction of fire ,these hundreds of metres per second particles emanate ? given that for thousands of years the only contact with smoke bees would have had was from natural disasters and smoke would in a large number of cases have drifted on the wind for fair distances , giving the colonies ample time to fill up for flight !
I have used a spray containing water and a drop or two of essential oil of lemon ,it works (I am told) by it's close resemblence to queen pheromone but that's another avenue for debate.
Now just to throw more fuel on the fire I have seen footage (can't remember where) of a bush fire during which a couple of hives were consumed and the bees staying with the queen ,perishing.
VM

 

[Skyhook]

Sorry for butting in, but I'd bookmarked this article. Is it any use?

Thanks Beejoyful. I've got a feeling I saw it in 'The Buzz about bees', but I cant find it now.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Now just to throw more fuel on the fire I have seen footage (can't remember where) of a bush fire during which a couple of hives were consumed and the bees staying with the queen ,perishing.
VM

Perhaps the smoke upsets the pheromone communication,so they were unable to leave the hives...and if they did, they would possibly all go off in different directions anyway,queen would simply fly off into oblivion, being as the pheromones were upset by the smoke, so no pheromones to hold them together as a swarm,meaning most bees caught in smoke would simply perish,and not escape by gorging themselves with honey and absconding.

Thank you for the link BJ.

 

[Finman]

.
http://www.mendeley.com/research/al...ees-is-decreased-by-smoke-hymenoptera-apidae/


Abstract
The application of smoke to honey bee (Apis mellifera) antennae reduced the subsequent electroantennograph response of the antennae to honey bee alarm pheromones, isopentyl acetate, and 2-heptanone. This effect was reversible, and the responsiveness of antennae gradually returned to that of controls within 10-20 min. A similar effect occurred with a floral odor, phenylacetaldehyde, suggesting that smoke interferes with olfaction generally, rather than specifically with honey bee alarm pheromones. A reduction in peripheral sensitivity appears to be one component of the mechanism by which smoke reduces nest defense behavior of honey bees.



That makes sense, because my experience is that some hives act normally a while but then they become mad about 10 min later.

In the worst cases "angry" bees try to stuck the pipe of smoker.

It depends on hive. If your hive does not obey smoke, it is better to kill the queen at once. They are mad to nurse.

What I have noticed is that if the smoker has bee wax and it burns, bees become quite mad. Bark of birch is neither a good smoker stuff.

Lavandel and burned lavandel, they surely have no idea as "pleasant smoke".

 

[Heather]

Why don't you try not using smoke- keep handy in case they are 'lively' but I rarely use anything- just a cover cloth and work gently. Bees kept in the dark just carry on working.
Go on- give it a try this Spring

 

[enrico]

Well said heather. Keep it handy but try not to use it as a matter of course... Happier bees for sure
E

 

[Headnavigator]

Why don't you try not using smoke- keep handy in case they are 'lively' but I rarely use anything- just a cover cloth and work gently. Bees kept in the dark just carry on working.
Go on- give it a try this Spring

Home-made cover cloth: two tea-towels, metal rod from straightened coat hanger through one end hem of each towel with an inch or so protruding each end, join with elastic leaving <10cm gap, works a treat and can be taken apart and washed. For extra stability put another rod through the opposite hem to weight it down in use. Roll up when not in use, takes no space.