keeping a swarm from going

[avrohalt]

I have just discovered that a swarm has moved into my new hive that I have built and it was a bit of a shock I can say. I had only put the hive outside a week ago to allow the newness to wear off a bit and I have only put a couple of frames of foundation in there while I built the rest.
I am sure this will sound silly to most of you but to persuade my new lodges to stay should I shut them in a few days while they become accustomed to their new place and they can draw out comb on the frames that I am rapidly building. I don't have any comb, but I have put a feeder at the top of the hive with some syrup in it is this enough or should I be doing something else.
Thanks

 

[Heather]

Queen excluder under brood box, and get those frames in pdq... tomorrow! or they will cause chaos in there.

 

[avrohalt]

thank you Heather
I have just been outside and put a queen excluder under the brood box. I am looking forward to tomorrow with frames in hand and some trepidation
thank you

 

[stucat]

Why use a queen excluder when you don't know if its a prime or cast swarm(though prob cast from the size)? How's a virgin queen going to mate?
Give them a frame of brood from another hive and that will stop them wandering off.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I have just discovered that a swarm has moved into my new hive that I have built and it was a bit of a shock I can say. I had only put the hive outside a week ago to allow the newness to wear off a bit and I have only put a couple of frames of foundation in there while I built the rest.
I am sure this will sound silly to most of you but to persuade my new lodges to stay should I shut them in a few days while they become accustomed to their new place and they can draw out comb on the frames that I am rapidly building. I don't have any comb, but I have put a feeder at the top of the hive with some syrup in it is this enough or should I be doing something else.
Thanks

A few points

Don't feed a swarm for the first 3 days. Even then it's not always necessary.

Get frames in quick or you will have a wild comb mess to clear up and the bees efforts will have been wasted. An hours work should see your frames and foundation assembled and installed.

If the hive is not to stay in its current position you only have a short time window to relocate by short distances.

I have never locked a swarm into a hive and never yet had one abscond. If one ever does - sh*t happens.

Enjoy your bees, however it's a steep, almost vertical learning curve that doesn't stop but eventually (or so I'm told) does ease off a bit. When you start to think you are becoming better at it a new problem arrives to challenge you.

Plenty of support on here but be selective about what you believe. The trick is to take notice of the real, experienced beekeepers, applying logic as well to sift out the chancers and the guessers. You have a guy in your area who really knows his bees but expects some effort to learn from new owners

 

[REDWOOD]

If they have moved in (rather than you putting them in) they are most likely to stay, I'm with Gilberdyke John no QE necessary, as for feeding if you are using fondation then give them a feed or two to get them wax building.

 

[oliver90owner]

I see no indication of size of swarm, nor whether the 'airing' hive parts were fitted with a crown board, or when they actually took up residence.

If a prime, she will be laying very shortly, if not already. They will have started building comb from whatever is their ceiling - the crownboard or the roof!

If a cast has been resident more than a couple days, she is likely to need to go out to mate, so that Q/E really needs to come off - as you don't know how old the virgin actually is. She is obviously old enough to fly and the cast swarm may have been hanging around a couple days before taking up residence. Today looks like a good mating day.

Inspection should be revealing. If a large prime, expect a deal of reorganisation being needed. If a small cast, they may be huddled in the warmest corner and ignoring the frames.

Treat the comb carefully as they may abscond if it ends up on the floor and may encourage robbing (particularly with an OMF).

Somewhere near Scampton - well, that area? County town of the one west of Yorshire comes to mind with that screen name.

Not feeding for the first three days forces the bees to use up their honey brought from the old hive, thereby reducing the risk of pathogens being fed to larvae (particularly brood diseases).

 

[For want of a better word]

Queen excluder under brood box, and get those frames in pdq... tomorrow! or they will cause chaos in there.

QX... ON TOP OF FLOOR... so bees have to crawl through it to exit and enter hive.

Feed...1:1... if the swarm has already perched in another bait box ...poor things may be starving... flighty bees can and do abscond from their first home... generally by carelessness of ham fisted and bodge it beekeepers!

Let alone for 3 days... in which time swap 4 pint feeder for a high energy food such as Candipol Gold... and take off the queen excluder.

There you have it lots of bees to make up apideas, or to make up nucs with nice non swarmy queens you have bred locally... without the swarm at a drop of a hat tendency.

Finman will be along in one moment to describe catch and release beekeeping practices... catch a swarm in July... feed it pamper it... watch them build up through the summer... hope for a surplus, surely next year... feed it... treat for varroa... see it through the winter.. pamper again in the Spring and watch it swarm in July.....


Yeghes da

 

[jonnybeegood]

I see no indication of size of swarm, nor whether the 'airing' hive parts were fitted with a crown board, or when they actually took up residence.

If a prime, she will be laying very shortly, if not already. They will have started building comb from whatever is their ceiling - the crownboard or the roof!

If a cast has been resident more than a couple days, she is likely to need to go out to mate, so that Q/E really needs to come off - as you don't know how old the virgin actually is. She is obviously old enough to fly and the cast swarm may have been hanging around a couple days before taking up residence. Today looks like a good mating day.

Inspection should be revealing. If a large prime, expect a deal of reorganisation being needed. If a small cast, they may be huddled in the warmest corner and ignoring the frames.

Treat the comb carefully as they may abscond if it ends up on the floor and may encourage robbing (particularly with an OMF).

Somewhere near Scampton - well, that area? County town of the one west of Yorshire comes to mind with that screen name.

Not feeding for the first three days forces the bees to use up their honey brought from the old hive, thereby reducing the risk of pathogens being fed to larvae (particularly brood diseases).

"If a prime, she will be laying very shortly,"?
Not nescesserily, it could be a prime swarm with a virgin queen, if the original Q was removed & a Q cell missed the prime swarm would have a virgin or maybe a mated Q & may not lay for weeks?

 

[Cussword]

"If a prime, she will be laying very shortly,"?
Not nescesserily, it could be a prime swarm with a virgin queen, if the original Q was removed & a Q cell missed the prime swarm would have a virgin or maybe a mated Q & may not lay for weeks?

Prime swarm = mated queen.

 

[user 6228]

Read Prof Tom Seeley's "Honeybee democracy" on what Honey bees want in a nest.
make sure that you satisfy as many of the requirements as possible to eliminate dissent in the scouts.
Vis:

1)Volume ~ 40L - they want this regardless of how big or small the swarm so dont use a nuc until the queen starts laying.
Dont fill it with foundation at the beggining just a a couple at the ends to start with(see in the book the method bees use to determine volume)

2) entrance less than 20 sq cm - Black out the mesh floor to make the small entrance unambigous
3)entrance facing south
4)entrance at bottom of hive
5)something from a hive ( e.g. the foundation)
6) entrance 5m up (we all pass on this one so make the other)

 

[jonnybeegood]

Prime swarm = mated queen.

Isnt a prime swarm the one that goes first taking half the bees, thats how i understand it, the rest are castes after that. The main swarm may not have a mated Queen back!

 

[oliver90owner]

The trick is to take notice of the real, experienced beekeepers, applying logic as well to sift out the chancers and the guessers.

You are dead to rights there. Avro needs to be doing that already. No mention of the 'usual' perpetrator, but spelling is not 'nescesserily' his strong point either! Typos, auto correction and predictive text will always occur occasionally.

Well spotted, Cussword.

 

[jonnybeegood]

The trick is to take notice of the real, experienced beekeepers, applying logic as well to sift out the chancers and the guessers.

You are dead to rights there. Avro needs to be doing that already. No mention of the 'usual' perpetrator, but spelling is not 'nescesserily' his strong point either! Typos, auto correction and predictive text will always occur occasionally.

Well spotted, Cussword.

So your saying i'm wrong? How can the first main swarm be called a caste? Its the prime swarm leaving, not a small caste. I cant believe you are now being petty about spelling Lol i am on my phone outside & its hard to see. I think you know you were wrong & wont admit it so you stoop to insults again

 

[Obee1]

"If a prime, she will be laying very shortly,"?
Not nescesserily, it could be a prime swarm with a virgin queen, if the original Q was removed & a Q cell missed the prime swarm would have a virgin or maybe a mated Q & may not lay for weeks?

? Are you suggesting a scenario where colony plans to swarm. Starts queencells, but the original mated queen is removed ( by beek maybe) so they wait for a virgin to emerge then swarm with her. Thereby becoming a prime swarm as in prime meaning first - but not necessarily with their intended original mated queen?
Is that what you mean?

 

[jonnybeegood]

? Are you suggesting a scenario where colony plans to swarm. Starts queencells, but the original mated queen is removed ( by beek maybe) so they wait for a virgin to emerge then swarm with her. Thereby becoming a prime swarm as in prime meaning first - but not necessarily with their intended original mated queen?
Is that what you mean?

Exactly, if you do an AS with the nuc method you take away the old Q from the hive, if you miss a Q cell the main hive may swarm so you get the main swarm going with a virgin or a mated Q, certainly wouldnt be laying in a few days as suggested, which is what my point was.

 

[pargyle]

"If a prime, she will be laying very shortly,"?
Not nescesserily, it could be a prime swarm with a virgin queen, if the original Q was removed & a Q cell missed the prime swarm would have a virgin or maybe a mated Q & may not lay for weeks?

If a swarm has a virgin as the queen then it's not a prime swarm .. it's a caste (or cast). In times past (not much in general use these days) third and fourth swarms used to be known as Colts and Fillies ...

You need to brush up on your beekeeperese JBG - saves embarrassment and confusion.

As an aside, it's not unknown for more than one virgin to leave with a cast - once established in their new home the virgins will fight until only one is left. (I was having this discussion earlier this week with my mentor who had picked up a swarm with three queens in it !).

PS: Ahh ... went to put some honey on my toast and half the forum has corrected you ...

 

[Cussword]

The main swarm may not have a mated Queen back!

That's correct, but then it wouldn't be a prime swarm.

 

[jonnybeegood]

If a swarm has a virgin as the queen then it's not a prime swarm .. it's a caste (or cast). In times past (not much in general use these days) third and fourth swarms used to be known as Colts and Fillies ...

You need to brush up on your beekeeperese JBG - saves embarrassment and confusion.

As an aside, it's not unknown for more than one virgin to leave with a cast - once established in their new home the virgins will fight until only one is left. (I was having this discussion earlier this week with my mentor who had picked up a swarm with three queens in it !).

PS: Ahh ... went to put some honey on my toast and half the forum has corrected you ...

Half the forum? You mean the usual arrogant one & another person, so two, oh & you had your two penneth too, so thats 3, is there only 6 people on this forum then? Grow up! A main swarm from a hive is a main swarm no matter which or how many Queens are in it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

When you're caught talking b*llox - shut up and stop digging.
BTW - it's a cast not a caste