is poly more attractive now than 12 months ago

[user 6228]

To wooden hive users...

Are you more likely today, to consider converting existing hives to poly or buying poly hives for expansion than you were 12 months ago.

The bad weather and strange behaviour of the last 12 months may have caused some to reconsider the materials they house their bees in.

 

[Baggyone]

It will be poly for new stuff from now on in. But my opinion has not changed on that.

Baggy

 

[REDWOOD]

The next hive I get will be a poly hive, any one know where to get a 14x12 poly

 

[thedaidai]

The next hive I get will be a poly hive, any one know where to get a 14x12 poly

pains do one

 

[For want of a better word]

The next hive I get will be a poly hive, any one know where to get a 14x12 poly

BEE HIVE SUPPLIES ..... Gunnislake... made in Cornwall !

hope that's not advertising..... no connection !

 

[mbc]

My only poly is in a MB and if it survives the winter will be for sale in the spring as we've not got on very well.

 

[Mike a]

My only poly is in a MB and if it survives the winter will be for sale in the spring as we've not got on very well.

Can I ask what problems you've had mbc?

 

[Into the lions den]

My only poly is in a MB and if it survives the winter will be for sale in the spring as we've not got on very well.

Funny you should say that. Our bee inspector was here just a couple of days ago, and said the same*. He bought one of these and his description of it, strictly in a personal capacity as a beekeeper rather than as an inspector, probably does not bear putting down here. He is getting rid of it too, but DOES believe in poly from the amount of it he sees in his official capacity. ( Note, getting rid of does not mean 'sell'. He says he does not ever want to see it again.) Simplicity and compatibility are the two important aspects some have ignored, either by omission or design. Some have just got too clever.

With a foot in both camps, 1200 wooden and 1500 poly on the hill this year, and now with 15 years experience of having two types in service, this is a debate I can hardly believe we are still having as not even ONCE in those years have the wooden units matched the poly units in either production or winter performance. Irrespective of my extreme scepticism (even hostility) at the outset I experimented, got startlingly good results (and had to eat a hefty dose of humble pie), and since then have increased the poly ones every year.

In Denmark a friend of mines hopes the wooden hives will never die away, he sells the owners lots of nucs every spring. Makes him a lot of money selling the surplus bees he has in the poly hives due to his miniscule loss rate.

Not voting in the poll for obvious reasons, as I am not an exclusively wooden hive owner AND as a commercial outfit who still owns/part owns a range of poly moulds. Too busy with mainstream business to be involved in selling them nowadays.


*....and not for the first time either, he was dispensing similar thoughts when advising one of the beekeepers from his patch who was looking at just such a hive at Harper Adams.

 

[Finman]

In Denmark a friend of mines hopes the wooden hives will never die away, .

It is strange that wood and poly are so feeling things.

I have 3 polybrood for every hive but I still have 45 years old wooden boxes in usage.

Wooden box is strong and it is easy to clean with frames. It stands hard handling.

But in brood reading and winter food saving insulation is absolutely necessary in Finland.

Beeks in USA write that some use 3 langstroth boxes honey for winter.

That is most grazy ever heard. But they say that inslutation is not needed and it seems that they do not undestand anything about honey production.

Guys say "WE in America" when they stand on their door. And America is from Texas coast jungles to Alaska tundras. Only Texas is 3 times bigger than Britain.

.

 

[jackbee]

Regarding increased honey production - would that require poly supers to achieve or is it the poly brood that drives it.

Questioning because you can buy/make wooden supers cheaper than poly supers and if it is the poly brood that drives increased production by needing less bees to keep brood warm then it might be more cost-effective with poly brood and wooden supers - may look odd but bees don't go on looks lol

 

[fatshark]

I'm with mbc on this ... I'll be selling my MB poly Nationals and investing in more cedar. The main issues are that the boxes are fractionally too small for the top bar of frames - with even a small amount of propolis they stick fast. This, coupled with the 'flat' frame runners - essentially contacting most/all of the lug - means it is difficult to manipulate frames without squashing bees. Top bee space is no problem but the QE tends to stick to the bottom of the first super and the overhang makes it tricky to get a hive tool in to fix things before the box is well separated. The combination of the width, frame rests and overhang are what lets the boxes down.

The boxes are well made, dense and generally easy to handle, other than the points noted above. Compatibility with wood hasn't really been an issue - I built a small over width eke to allow uniting etc.

I'm not anti-poly. All my mini-nucs, most of my nucs and many of my supers are made of the stuff. The supers are Sweinty. They're the right size, easy to handle and very robust. The nucs are P@ynes which have all been modified to take eight frames by removing the internal (infernal) feeder.

I don't have enough experience with the poly boxes to know whether bees overwinter in them better, or build up faster in Spring. I have no reason to doubt those who make these claims.

 

[Luminos]

The only way to make an informed choice is for Poly to post a photo of himself 12 months ago, and a more recent one, IMO...

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Have to admit my swienty poly langstroth's (same as ITLD uses) have done extremely well filled the brood nest from 4.5-5 frames since end of July in just over a month (i have no previous experience to compare against though). Even thinking of doubling my hive's next year already but not sure weather to get a years experience under the belt first =).

 

[mbc]

Can I ask what problems you've had mbc?

Same as Fatshark in that the frame luggs stick and you cant slide them along easily, but I also struggle with the lack of compatibility, the roof sits awkwardly on a wood super.
I got one from lyson too and that one looked so wrong in terms of bee spaces beeing way out to my eye that its not getting any bees in it from me.
I have a swienty national from C Wynne and that looks much better, but the feeder doesnt have a bee space under it and needs a rim to stop it sitting directly on the frames and crushing lots of bees on the bottom bee space brood box. I've yet to trial the swienty box much but it appears good and the newly installed nuc will hopefully help inform my judgement of which way to go in the future. I'm half hoping that ITLD's tales of better performance wont apply in West Wales as timber is so much nicer to handle and sits better with my view of sustainable beekeeping ( but will keep an open mind and give it a few years and lots of colonies to give a reasonably fair comparison).
I suppose the way to go is to mix and match but taking care to only fork out on compatible equipment.

 

[Walrus]

If I could wind back the clock and start again I would probably go for poly langstroths - maybe all boxes same size. However, I have red cedar with 14x12 BB, which cost a fortune and is excellent. I don't have a poly hive to compare my wood ones too although I have a couple of poly Nucs....

I'm undecided about my next hive being poly. As there does seem to be a 14x12 poly hive out there now I could well give it a go and compare to the wood. Contributions by ITLD, Finman & PH are hard to ignore

However, if I was planning on expansion and moving over to poly instead of wood I'd have to consider whether to keep with 14x12 or go to the more standard Langstroth, which would probably work out much cheaper in the long run....

It reminds me a bit of my angst about moving from windows PCs to Mac - I don't regret it now, but it took me ages to take the plunge!

 

[johnandyrob]

If I could wind back the clock I would bypass the cedar nationals especially the bottom be space bit. Not even consider M.B. langstroths and go for swienty poly langs straight off.

 

[itma]

... As there does seem to be a 14x12 poly hive out there now ...

NO. There are two suppliers, offering rival products, and have been for many months.



I still think that no one has cracked the problem of making a poly 14x12 actually look good, as opposed to "practical".
Aesthetics matter to the hobbyist, not a jot to the businessman!
That said, I've recently bought my first poly 14x12, and gave in to buying the cheaper, uglier one. Thus far, the bees (a late July swarm) seem quite happy, and I can also report that white isn't the colour of paint I would choose for next time! Dark green might help if blend in ... what was I thinking!

 

[Into the lions den]

I have a swienty national from C Wynne and that looks much better, but the feeder doesnt have a bee space under it and needs a rim to stop it sitting directly on the frames and crushing lots of bees on the bottom bee space brood box.

I am part owner of that mould. It was made the way it was for reasons of economy, as we were unsure how well it would be recieved in this, the most conservatively minded country in Europe beekeeping wise, and for compatibility with existing equipment.

The feeder does not have a rim round the bottom as it is also the same feeder for top bee space variants (ie the Smith) and is actually the same feeder used on Swedish Nationals. Only UK Nationals are bottom bees space for some reason. If you have a framed excluder just leave it on and place the feeder on top and it works fine. It also seems to work well enough if you smoke well, scrape the topbars clean, and place the feeder flush on the frames. Be careful NOT to align the feed access slot ALONG the frames as it is just possible to completely obsruct it, so always run the slot across the topbars. People do adapt well to using these feeders. Such things are the result of compromises.

 

[Moggs]

Poly has been very useful for me. There can be little doubt as to the advantages in thermal insulation. Portability is another winner. Aesthetically, there have been disappointed and disparaging looks from visitors at the allotment site (they all expect to see a brilliant white WBC of course).

I have 14x12 poly and 14x12 poly nucs in service. I have had problems with the deep and narrow integral feed chamber with the nucs (bees drown far too easily) so have employed plastic netting within as an escape ladder. The sheer size of the P @ y n e s 14x12 offering (not flat packed) is an issue.

I don't like the plastic QE's as supplied as it's difficult to lift them without upsetting the bees and the clear plastic covers are not easily positioned. However, these issues are easily resolved.

Although cedar will take pride of place in any display situation, the practicality of poly will see me buying more, especially if I need a hive to be pressed into service in a hurry.

 

[Into the lions den]

Aesthetics matter to the hobbyist, not a jot to the businessman!

Maybe a surprise but the aesthetics DO matter to me. Some of the poly offerings are ugly in the extreme and witht heir being plenty of choice out there I can choose ones I like without much, if any, price penalty. What you consider to be aesthetics might vary a bit from mines, so its the eye of the owner that counts.

We also have to be aware of the preferences of the landowner and not put anything on their land that is to them visually offensive. This is not usually a 'poly or not' situation, more the colours we choose to paint them.

We also have a couple of landowners who have a high number of paying guests come to their estates and actually request we place some of our wooden hives rather than poly ones in brighter colours within sight of their guests lodges.