Two years in and I think I am queenless!

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This is aimed at bee-keepers with one or two years experience who may feel that bee-keeping is not as easy as it appeared! None of what follows is intended as anything other than tips for an easier life. My methods will not suit everyone so please pick out the parts that are relevant to you and adapt them if necessary to suit your own situation.

We all know that a hive needs a queen to survive and that is why, when we think our hive has no eggs and diminishing brood, as relative beginners, we panic! What has happened to my queen? Did I kill her at the last inspection? Has she swarmed? What am I going to do?

How do we know if there is a queen in the hive? In your first couple of years, and beyond, queens can be illusive to find in a hive full of bees. I always seem to have a different hive each year where I may go several inspections before I see the queen whilst in others I see them every time. It is obviously easier to see a marked queen but I am not going into the marking of queens as that is very much a practical lesson. Suffice it to say that if you accidentally manage to paint your queen entirely one colour rather than a small dab on the body then don’t worry too much, in my experience they do tend to survive!

Remember, if you have a reasonable pattern of eggs in your hive then the chances are that you have had a queen in there in the last three days and that is really all you need to know. Actually seeing the queen is a bonus.

So where has the queen gone when you have no eggs? Firstly it is important to remember that queens do not lay constantly every day. They do have brood breaks for various reasons. If a strong flow of nectar dries to nothing, if there is a long spell of inclement weather, if the queen has a bad hair day and a myriad of other reasons. The secret is to be patient and hopefully normal service will resume in the near future. This is when you will hear beekeepers say “Well she must have been superceded!” It is a possibility but that is where a marked queen is again very helpful!

Remember that queens can be produced from eggs and very young larvae so if you have lost your queen for whatever reason your hive is not hopelessly queenless if you still have some of those present.

Then of course there is the possibility that you have had a swarm. The amount of times that I have stood by a beekeeper looking at a swarm of bees hanging from a nearby branch and they have declared “Well its not from any of my hives!” Those of us that keep bees in ‘out apiaries’ may never have actually seen a swarm leave a hive whilst those of us that keep them in close proximity to our houses will probably have watched the phenomenon several times! It takes about ten or fifteen minutes for a swarm to leave a hive and form a clump on a nearby branch or less accessible object and the hive they left just seems to carry on as normal. You would never know they had just swarmed. That initial swarm may stay on the branch ten minutes or several weeks but once gone it is difficult for anyone to be confident which hive has or has not swarmed! This can be further confused with clipped queens where the queen is lost in the grass and the remaining bees return to the hive.

The obvious clue to losing a swarm is the presence of queen cells but as beginners we can easily miss them hidden in holes and down the edges of frames, or simply covered with bees. If you think you are queenless a check for these hidden cells may answer your question as to where the queen may have gone! If this is the likely reason then once again it is a waiting game for a new queen to emerge and be mated. You can read as many books as you like on the subject but the time this takes can differ greatly. A newly emerged queen can take six weeks or more to get mated if the conditions are not right and the quality of that mating can differ as a result.

Then there is the weird situation where you inspect your hives and see a queen on one frame and several frames later you spot another one! Yes more than one queen can co exist in one hive for a time after supercedure. The panic sets in when on a balmy day in winter you see a dead queen on the landing board. Your hive is doomed! Or is it, just maybe there may be a younger queen still in the hive from an Autumn supercedure who is mated and ready to continue and the hive has finally despatched the old queen. You are unlikely to be able to find out before your first spring inspection.

Obviously every case has to be dealt with on its own merits but I am merely trying to impress on you that whilst you may believe your hive is doomed because you seem to have lost your queen that is not always going to be the case and a little patience can go a long way.

The one thing that I do think is important is the real advantage of having two hives as a minimum. The best way to find out if you have a queen in a hive with no eggs is to take a test frame of eggs from a second hive, one from your own apiary is preferable to prevent any spread of disease. Carefully shake the majority of the bees off and inspect the frame to make sure that you are not transferring your queen from the donor hive to the ‘queenless’ one! (Been there and done that). This frame should contain eggs and young larvae.

Here is a tip that I was given many years ago and works for me. Before inserting the frame into the ‘queenless’ hive take your hive tool and scrape about 4cm width of comb back to the foundation immediately under a good patch of eggs somewhere in the centre of one side of the frame. I use the blade of my ‘J’ hive tool which gives me the right depth and scrape the 4cm from left to right. I then mark the top of the frame so I know which frame it is. This frame now gets slipped into the centre of the brood box in the ‘queenless’ hive. In five days time I check that frame. If the bees are going to build queen cells I find that they will have built them downwards in the space you scraped back to the foundation. You will get two or three nice cells if your hive is queenless. The photo shows the method on an old brood frame.

If indeed your hive is queenless you have choices of buying a new queen in, leaving a nice cell from your test frame or introducing a queen from another source or combining with another queen-right hive. If there is no signs of Queen cells then the chances are that you do have a queen lurking in there somewhere so be very careful. You do not want to add a new queen to a hive that already has one so patience is a virtue. If necessary try another test frame in a weeks time!

If you are confident that a swarm has left your hive then apart from reducing queen cells to one or two in number, resist the urge to keep checking. A virgin will hopefully be awaiting mating and you don't need to keep interrupting the process!

Finally remember that the temperament of your hive depends largely on the queen. If your hive is calm when you inspect it then it is another pointer to there being a queen present whilst an agitated hive obviously suggests that there may not be a queen. These are not rules set in stone they are possible indicators.

The whole temperament of a hive can change merely by changing the queen. If you have a hive from hell then get help to find the old queen and despatch her. There are many ways to search a queen out but an experienced eye is the best way. Replace her with a queen from a known source or combine with a second more placid hive and beekeeping should be a pleasure again.

I must reiterate that patience is the most important thing when worrying about a possible queenless hive. Bees want to live so they are going to do everything within their power to make sure they are not queenless. It is too easy to thwart their efforts by panicking!

This weeks tip. Try marking a few drones before you attempt marking your own queen but for obvious reasons don't forget to dispatch them afterwards!!!
A bonus tip from a fellow beekeeper. To keep propolis off your hands and gloves try handling your frames just in-board of the lugs. The lugs are the main area that get propolised so avoiding touching them can help to keep your hands clean!
 
Thank you, I have already confessed that I am the female half of D, and seem to be the one who is passionate about bees of all sorts. I am trying to reverse type 2 diabetes so my wish to keep honey bees is not for the honey per se.
As I was, and never knew it until all the publicity recently, hyperactive - fidgety ADHD, I have only from seeing Rory Bremner realised why I struggled with maths etc.
However, have always loved the natural world and landscapes. I joined this forum as proxy for D who seems more than semi-detached, although he has done beekeeping courses. The first couple of years had a fab queen/colony but he did not seem able to manage them, they swarmed and then swarmed the following season too. Then he left it far too late to check them, all other beekeepers I know locally had harvested the honey. When he went belatedly to look there was no honey and no bees. He blamed wasps, or was it plain bad management. Despite being given a couple of swarms subsequently the bees never make it through to spring, so no bees last time he looked.
He just does not reach out the way many new or learner beekeepers do, so I suppose I ought to just give up hope of having beautiful honey bees in my garden.
 
He just does not reach out the way many new or learner beekeepers do, so I suppose I ought to just give up hope of having beautiful honey bees in my garden.
Of course not. YOU be the beekeeper...he can do the cooking ;)
 
Thank you, I have already confessed that I am the female half of D, and seem to be the one who is passionate about bees of all sorts. I am trying to reverse type 2 diabetes so my wish to keep honey bees is not for the honey per se.
As I was, and never knew it until all the publicity recently, hyperactive - fidgety ADHD, I have only from seeing Rory Bremner realised why I struggled with maths etc.
However, have always loved the natural world and landscapes. I joined this forum as proxy for D who seems more than semi-detached, although he has done beekeeping courses. The first couple of years had a fab queen/colony but he did not seem able to manage them, they swarmed and then swarmed the following season too. Then he left it far too late to check them, all other beekeepers I know locally had harvested the honey. When he went belatedly to look there was no honey and no bees. He blamed wasps, or was it plain bad management. Despite being given a couple of swarms subsequently the bees never make it through to spring, so no bees last time he looked.
He just does not reach out the way many new or learner beekeepers do, so I suppose I ought to just give up hope of having beautiful honey bees in my garden.
More than most "pastimes" (to belittle beekeeping!), I think keeping bees demands that participants have, or maybe develop a passion for the art that goes beyond simply a love of bees or honey. You say that the honey was what attracted you, but your wistful words imply more.
Go for it. Maybe you'll find that D will respond by being more comfortable taking on the organisational and practical aspects of beekeeping. Roles reversed, you may be a dream, beekeeping team. :)
 
Of course it's possible to be a beekeeper AND do the cooking. Just saying. 😉
It was a device.
This beekeeper cooks, tries to keep bees, gardens, grows veg, counsels, wrangles chickens and uses power tools. Oh and I’m a bank as well 😉
But I won’t drive the motorhome
 
evening all, D was despatched to Ruxley bees yesterday. Did a useful training session with about 8 or 9 others. Today we went to a London Park where a community garden has chickens and bees at the furthest end. Another very good session examing each of the 4 hives and a poly nuc. Very clear instructions and tips from a couple of lead beekeepers.
Lovely spot, lots of meadows and large pond. Happy bees on the whole although our instructor did find some mites. Far better than anything I have been to in the past. However D took an active interest in harndlng the hives, and got quite badly stung through the surgical gloves. It was beautiful very warm weather. I think some of the handlers, one young girl in particular were too slow, the bees started getting annoyed. One interesting fact I gained today was that the bees are as light sensitive as I am. Thanks for the tongue in cheek advice for me to become the beekeeper. Not going to happen. Have become weak not just in the head but also my hands are not as strong as they were, just saying.
 
I wish I had found and read this blog before panicking when I could not find the queen in my newly acquired (first) swarm earlier this month. patience has indeed been the solution and I now see eggs and larvae, but still not spotted her majesty.
As a beginner, albeit with a 90 year old neighbour and mentor who donated all his equipment, not used in over ten years, I am learning fast. The one good thing about my panic was I probably learnt more as a result than I would have if everything had appeared ok right from the start.
I enjoyed reading your blog and saw myself being described.
Much appreciated.
K ;)
 
I wish I had found and read this blog before panicking when I could not find the queen in my newly acquired (first) swarm earlier this month. patience has indeed been the solution and I now see eggs and larvae, but still not spotted her majesty.
As a beginner, albeit with a 90 year old neighbour and mentor who donated all his equipment, not used in over ten years, I am learning fast. The one good thing about my panic was I probably learnt more as a result than I would have if everything had appeared ok right from the start.
I enjoyed reading your blog and saw myself being described.
Much appreciated.
K ;)
My pleasure, I find it's comforting to know you are not the only one making mistakes. We ALL make them, and sometimes we even make the same mistake several times😃
 
My pleasure, I find it's comforting to know you are not the only one making mistakes. We ALL make them, and sometimes we even make the same mistake several times😃
Eric I saw the bbka on fb had a post with your name on it I had to share it to my ttch page
 

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