Is it really honey?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How much does a decent cup of coffee cost in Conwy

is there such a thing anywhere?

 

[Murox]

Probably not in the UK anyway.

 

[fian]

One of the few organic honey producers in Galicia. You will find the organic seal in the image on the right side with CREAGA at the bottom, while on the left is the London award and the award granted by the AGA (Galician Beekeeping Association) in 2023.
https://globalhoneystars.com/liha2024/product/ecomel/

 

[fian]

In Galicia, CREAGA is the certifying body for organic agriculture and livestock. The requirements to certify a beekeeper are:
A. All your apiaries must meet the conditions. The same beekeeper cannot package organic and conventional honey.
B. Increase in hives by division or purchase from other organic beekeepers. It is also possible to acquire a maximum of 10% of conventional colonies as long as the waxes are of organic origin and the handling they receive is the same as the other hives.
C. 3 km radius according to European legislation. There cannot be large population units, intensive farms, industrial zones, highways, landfills or any other activity that generates polluting products.
D. Use of natural materials for the manufacture of hives. Products for treatments based on propolis, wax, essential oils, or treatments authorized by legislation.
E. You cannot collect honey whose cells contain brood. The materials are disinfected with steam or authorized products according to the legislation.
F. Wax from organic origin or during the conversion period (from capper or free of unauthorized chemicals).
G. It cannot be fed unless there is a risk of survival. If made, it will be made with organic honey from the apiary itself or with certified organic sugar.
H. Will record in a record all the operations carried out on the apiary.

 

[Superlativesoul]

How can honey be labelled as organic ,the bees can forage everywhere .Unless they are prevented from leaving an area of organic forage .
John

 

[Erichalfbee]

How can honey be labelled as organic ,the bees can forage everywhere .Unless they are prevented from leaving an area of organic forage .
John

Perfectly possible in remote areas with little human habitation but not in the U.K.

 

[pargyle]

Perfectly possible in remote areas with little human habitation but not in the U.K.

I think what frustrates me about this gap - where product can be labellled as 'British' and 'Organic' when neither are true is that Trading standards and MAFF pursue real beekeepers, with hives in the UK, producing good quality honey, for minor infringes on labelling and testing for every last possible trace of something that should not be in the honey and threaten or even carry out prosecution ... Yet .. the blatantly misleading labelling we've seen on here in the last few days from the likes of Aldi seem to go completely unnoticed. It may not be our market, it may not affect our sales .. but it does seriously irritate me ...

 

[JamezF]

I think what frustrates me about this gap - where product can be labellled as 'British' and 'Organic' when neither are true is that Trading standards and MAFF pursue real beekeepers, with hives in the UK, producing good quality honey, for minor infringes on labelling and testing for every last possible trace of something that should not be in the honey and threaten or even carry out prosecution ... Yet .. the blatantly misleading labelling we've seen on here in the last few days from the likes of Aldi seem to go completely unnoticed. It may not be our market, it may not affect our sales .. but it does seriously irritate me ...

Far easier to collect notches on one's clipboard by chasing the smaller guys who can't afford to pick a fight than the large ones who can pay far more expensive lawyers than you can...

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How can honey be labelled as organic ,the bees can forage everywhere .Unless they are prevented from leaving an area of organic forage .
John

Perfectly possible in remote areas with little human habitation but not in the U.K.

well, there are some areas - such as the Scottish heather moors but as Murray McGregor said, all the expense and hoops you have to jump through to get the accreditation - it's just not worth the hassle.

 

[mdotb]

How can honey be labelled as organic ,the bees can forage everywhere .Unless they are prevented from leaving an area of organic forage .
John

As with anything labelled (legitimately) as "Organic" in the UK, what it actually means is that the producer has paid the money to, and jumped through the hoops of, one of the "approved organic control bodies" in the UK. As an example, someone posted the Soil Association's organic beekeeping requirements here a few years back (current version available here page 188 onwards) which don't require any guarantee that the bees forage only on organic plants, but does have some land use within a 3km radius of an apiary that would prevent it being considered "organic" (e.g. waste disposal site) and also requires that the registrant is able to show confidence that: "Nectar and pollen sources within 3km of your apiary consist essentially of: i) organic crops ii) uncultivated areas with natural vegetation, and iii) crops that have only been managed with low environmental impact methods and which cannot significantly affect the organic description of beekeeping." These are not insurmountable bars, don't require direct control of that land, and are probably not what the customer "thinks" organic means when honey is labelled that way - given that many beekeepers get this one wrong and assume that the entirety of the land in that radius must be certified "organic". Also, note "essentially" not "entirely". A few gardens nearby that you don't know about, but mostly "ancient woodland", would be "essentially" number ii, I imagine.

It is not in the interests of the "organic control bodies" to set the standard at an impossible-to-attain level, as they make their money from people registering. You can keep both organic and non-organic bees, you can even (for certain reasons and limited time) put both types in the same apiary and still be "organic" on the "organic" ones. It might not be trivial but it's not unobtainable. What more likely puts off commercial entities are requirements like (with records) demonstrating that sufficient food in the form of their own honey was left on the hives for winter, and emergency feeding with sugar (which must be recorded) is exceptional only. At scale, that amounts to a lot of honey not being sold, and I suspect a lot more manual intervention to measure/gauge stores in the late summer rather than remove everything and feed known quantities to everything. You'd want to be confident in the organic mark-up covering those sorts of costs if you were trying to make a living from it, and I doubt many hobby beekeepers are interested in paying the registration costs. There are a few out there, you can find from time to time with the registrations and all.

All of that said, there are honey producers and packers who write "organic" on labels or in marketing material without the legal label specifications for detailing their certifying body, which frankly if you'd paid for, you would also know is a legal requirement to include, so as with many other terms (including, it would appear, at least sometimes "honey") the unscrupulous undermine the efforts of both those who do go to the effort of jumping through relevant hoops and paying, and those who - because they haven't or can't - don't use terms like "organic" illegally on labels or in marketing.

 

[Penninetrader]

Conwy is lovely....I agree. My point was that for the price of an upmarket coffee you can have a jar of proper honey

And a point that should be used in marketing. For example using miles travelled and number of journeys to produce said jar of honey. Plus every one of those miles and every piece of pollen and nectar coming from the actual UK.

 

[Podilia]

Who knows, may be they test/taste every sample of honey in China before produce it in the UK? It's a hard work. For example there the experts work hard around the world to select the best ingredients

 

[JamezF]

Who knows, may be they test/taste every sample of honey in China before produce it in the UK? It's a hard work. For example there the experts work hard around the world to select the best ingredients
View attachment 41765

I think Yorkshire Tea is made from wood shavings, waste engine oil and the evacuated steam from stationary engines

James

 

[Peterjay]

The world is now so filled with microscopic contaminants originating from human activity that it seems unlikely that any food product can be entirely "organic". I think that honey from any beehive where medication has not been used and minimal processing has taken place is organic enough for my requirements......and that's why I keep bees.

 

[Penninetrader]

I think Yorkshire Tea is made from wood shavings, waste engine oil and the evacuated steam from stationary engines

James

You forgot shredded flat caps and whippets

 

[Sutty]

Can I market my honey as;

ORGANIC*

*contains multiple carbon-carbon bonds.

 

[JamezF]

BBKA News for Jan 2025 has arrived very early and contains an interesting article about the new DNA testing method developed at Celvia.

James

 

[Penninetrader]

Imagine if any mass marketed honey product had to undergo testing and have a clearly labelled rating. Especially so if the product is sourced from outside of the UK with unknown origin. That would be just about all of the product on supermarket shelves.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

it's just part of the definition - it's an 'or' rather than an 'and' it's to cover thing such as meat imported in large lumps, then butchered/minced/ cut into family sized 'joints' then sold as 'British' beef/pork/lamb.
I remember open pallets full of beef just removed from the bone coming off the ferry at Fishguard then trucked up to a processing plant near me at the end of the M4 to be packed in little polystyrene trays clingfilmed for onwards sale at mini markets and labelled 'product of the UK'
Not going to name the plant as it's still running and I know a few who work there - but it hit the press a few time for its dubious practices

Horsemeat by any chance?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Horsemeat by any chance?

nope - it was beef