Introducing ripe queen cells to queen-right colonies

[BILL.HEARD]

Hello, I know this method of re-queening has been used down-under for some time however I would like some feed back as to its success rate in this country.
How many of you have tried it, did you protect the cells with tape/tinfoil before insertion, in which part of the hive were they put, in the main did colonies so treated accept them as 'supercedure' cells or did colonies swarm after insertion? Was there a particular time in the season when you tried this, before or after a main flow in your area?

Thanks

 

[beeno]

Hi Bill,
My bee new years resolution was to become a more proactive beek when it comes to requeening. Not accept what I am given naturally by the bees, but get queens from the colonies with the best traits in the apiary. I be very interested to hear of peoples' experience with the Aussie solution. My first thought is that it seems a bit risky though for the hobbyist?

 

[isc26]

There is a small book called managing Mininucs by Ron Brown that might be a help with what you are trying to achieve. Northern bee books have copies for a couple of £.

 

[Suzi Q]

Don't know much on the subject but found this study. They had queen cells accepted but none of the emerged queens went on to supercede the existing queen.http://www.zoo3.biozentrum.uni-wuerzbur

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Don't know much on the subject but found this study. They had queen cells accepted but none of the emerged queens went on to supercede the existing queen.http://www.zoo3.biozentrum.uni-wuerzbur

Thanks Suzi,
Can't seem to open the attached.
It has been noted for some time that a percentage of hives have two or more queens working side by side, perhaps the old queen just disappears after a period of time so in reality it is a supercedure.

 

[Suzi Q]

Well I have 'fess up, I don't really know how to insert a link! Is it necessary to type in the 'url' after clicking 'insert link'? Maybe I missed out some letters. Can do attachments, sort of!

 

[Black Comb]

I've tried this a few times without success.
In any event I would protect the sides of the cell. I used those coiled wire thingies as I had a couple to hand.
I placed them on the face of the comb in the supersedure position.

I guess my failure was due to the wrong time of year, as they were all done June or July, the reason being this is when I had spare queen cells. The objective was to get rid of aggressive queens, I suppose a lazy way of doing it.

I think it is called forced supersedure, possibly managed supersedure.

 

[Suzi Q]

My guess is they won't allow supercedure if they are satisfied with the existing queen, so will kill the virgin when she emerges.

 

[Michael Palmer]

Well, I'm not un the UK, but I've used this method with success.

Have you ever inspected a colony, and found queen cells in the supers? Your first thought was probably that the colony was preparing to swarm. That thought prompted a more complete inspection. You found that only the very few cells in the honey supers were the only in the hive.

The colony wasn't preparing to swarm, they were superseding. So, if you are going to use queen cells to re-queen a queen-right colony, do it the way the bees are seen to do it.

Your bees have to be on a flow. That's important, and the time when I see the bees raising supercedure cells in honey supers. You should place the ripe cell up in the honey supers...supers the bees are working in well, not empty supers away from the cluster...

...and you should place the cell in a cell protector, that you can purchase very inexpensively.

I've never kept track of % success, but I know beekeepers that claim 70-80%. In Florida, it seems to be basic management to give every colony a ripe queen cell twice a year.

 

[Michael Palmer]

My guess is they won't allow supercedure if they are satisfied with the existing queen, so will kill the virgin when she emerges.

Surely true sometimes, but not always. Have you ever allowed a mated queen and a virgin queen to have access to each other, and watched what happens.

Faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive...that virgin is on the mated queen more quickly than you can snap your fingers. The mated queen never sees it coming.

I think it must be like that when you use cells to re-queen. The mated queen is busy laying eggs and not paying attention, and the virgin is looking to commit murder.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Well I have 'fess up, I don't really know how to insert a link! Is it necessary to type in the 'url' after clicking 'insert link'? Maybe I missed out some letters. Can do attachments, sort of!

Suzi

post the title of the paper and I will try to find it and post it

Geoff

 

[FreeFall]

I found it after a bit of searching. Seems the original link is truncated.

http://www.zoo3.biozentrum.uni-wuerzburg.de/fileadmin/07020300/user_upload/hah25ky/Supersedure.pdf

 

[mbc]

I've tried this supercedure requeening many times and have abandoned it as a waste of time with my bees as it seldom works in my experience. What I've observed is that the protected cells hatch fine (hinged lid) but the virgin disappears without trace with the marked queen carrying on as before. I dont know why this should be as it obviously works as a strategy elsewhere in the world.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Well, I'm not un the UK, but I've used this method with success.

Have you ever inspected a colony, and found queen cells in the supers? Your first thought was probably that the colony was preparing to swarm. That thought prompted a more complete inspection. You found that only the very few cells in the honey supers were the only in the hive.

The colony wasn't preparing to swarm, they were superseding. So, if you are going to use queen cells to re-queen a queen-right colony, do it the way the bees are seen to do it.

Your bees have to be on a flow. That's important, and the time when I see the bees raising supercedure cells in honey supers. You should place the ripe cell up in the honey supers...supers the bees are working in well, not empty supers away from the cluster...

...and you should place the cell in a cell protector, that you can purchase very inexpensively.

I've never kept track of % success, but I know beekeepers that claim 70-80%. In Florida, it seems to be basic management to give every colony a ripe queen cell twice a year.

Hello Michael,
Thanks for this, I have no knowledge of Florida climate but I would assume that it would have a bearing on the longevity of a queen which the bees may wish to supercede after a full laying season, cost wise I can see where they are coming from. I shall try this method on some of my stocks headed by two year old queens this coming summer, I will let you know how I get on.

Regards,

Bill

 

[masterBK]

The method can work but I think it best to take a nucleus & intro the protected queen cell to it and 3 weeks later when sure she is laying OK unite nucleus back to main colony. Young queen usually wins but to be on safe side remove the old lady.

 

[BILL.HEARD]

The method can work but I think it best to take a nucleus & intro the protected queen cell to it and 3 weeks later when sure she is laying OK unite nucleus back to main colony. Young queen usually wins but to be on safe side remove the old lady.

Hello masterBK,
Yes this is the normal way a lot of people adopt when wishing to re-queen, and I use it myself, however I'm just looking at various methods that have been adopted to circumvent the nucleus approach.

Regards,

Bill

 

[Suzi Q]

Yes, that's it Freefall; will have to learn how to post links properly. Thanks MM

 

[BILL.HEARD]

Yes, that's it Freefall; will have to learn how to post links properly. Thanks MM

Thanks both……...