Insurance

[Mr C]

Can somebody help with insurance public liability recommendations
Need to get something up and running for the next week ?
Appreciate your help

 

[philipm]

Think the NFU Mutual do something.

 

[Millet]

Why .?? it is a total waste of money getting insured for anything, they have your eyes out then wont pay out when the **** hits the fan, go commando i do everyday apart from the motor, , number plate recognition cameras are a pain.. lol

 

[gregior]

Are you a member of a local BBKA branch? PLI cover comes with membership.

 

[For want of a better word]

Are you a member of a local BBKA branch? PLI cover comes with membership.

Not for out apiaries/ farmers markets etc etc.... very limited... try NFU Mutual... of join Beefarmers ( but you will need at least another 40 or so colonies)

Yeghes da

 

[alldigging]

Not for out apiaries/ farmers markets etc etc.... very limited... try NFU Mutual... of join Beefarmers ( but you will need at least another 40 or so colonies)

Yeghes da

You get PLI for out apiaries
I thought we'd had the discussion that it covers sales at FM too.

 

[For want of a better word]

Millet seems to have the handle on this... The BBKA ( NOT BDI) insurance has been discussed extensively before.
From my own investigations I would not place any reliance on the "insurance" that comes with BBKA full membership...in a court case at best would only defend against the beekeepers neglect, and if proven to be neglectful is not set up to pay out compensation to the third party.

I thought we'd had the discussion that it covers sales at FM too.... but many will NOT accept it!

Buy something fit for purpose.

Yeghes da

 

[psafloyd]

From my own investigations I would not place any reliance on the "insurance" that comes with BBKA full membership...in a court case at best would only defend against the beekeepers neglect, and if proven to be neglectful is not set up to pay out compensation to the third party.

Any more on this, Icanhopit? What did you discover in your investigations?

 

[thorn]

Has anyone direct experience of the benefits and/or shortcomings of the Association's insurance? None of the naysayers on this thread have given any reason for their negativity.

 

[Mr C]

Hoping the bee farmer Association will help out
Thanks for your input

 

[For want of a better word]

Any more on this, Icanhopit? What did you discover in your investigations?

Never... despite many requests got a definitive answer from the BBKA on PLI and what cover would be provided for product liability at "Farmers" or food markets, cover appeared to be limited and aimed at low volume " over the gate" sales and not to a third ( wholesale) party.

The larger Food fayres... and Farmers markets would NOT accept the BBKA policy on PLI and Products liability

Left me wondering if my back would be covered if I sold my honey into a local honey co-opperative or similar as I had in past times?***

On Bee disease insurance, ( BDI) cover was limited to replace frames that had to be destroyed... no compensation for loss of honey or honey production, or for foundation ( very vague on this) plus a limit on number of colonies covered.

At the time I was rapidly expanding over the 40 colonies of bees that the BBKA insurance would cover.... Now have full cover for everything under a NFU farming insurance ( including bees, hives.machinery, buildings an vehicles plus FULL cover for PLI and product liability for any sales of honey and any bee related products activities ( Showing LIVE bees at public events, is excluded from activities covered... as is allowing public tasting of honey and related products... I can see why!)

We also have Beefarmers Association insurance cover... belt and braces ... perhaps getting stung just once is once too often.

You pays your money and takes your chance!

Yeghes da

*** I do not wish to discuss this type of activity as it seems to upset more beekeepers than mentioning Native bees!

 

[psafloyd]

Never... despite many requests got a definitive answer from the BBKA on PLI and what cover would be provided for product liability at "Farmers" or food markets, cover appeared to be limited and aimed at low volume " over the gate" sales and not to a third ( wholesale) party.

The larger Food fayres... and Farmers markets would NOT accept the BBKA policy on PLI and Products liability

Left me wondering if my back would be covered if I sold my honey into a local honey co-opperative or similar as I had in past times?***

On Bee disease insurance, ( BDI) cover was limited to replace frames that had to be destroyed... no compensation for loss of honey or honey production, or for foundation ( very vague on this) plus a limit on number of colonies covered.

At the time I was rapidly expanding over the 40 colonies of bees that the BBKA insurance would cover.... Now have full cover for everything under a NFU farming insurance ( including bees, hives.machinery, buildings an vehicles plus FULL cover for PLI and product liability for any sales of honey and any bee related products activities ( Showing LIVE bees at public events, is excluded from activities covered... as is allowing public tasting of honey and related products... I can see why!)

We also have Beefarmers Association insurance cover... belt and braces ... perhaps getting stung just once is once too often.

You pays your money and takes your chance!

Yeghes da

*** I do not wish to discuss this type of activity as it seems to upset more beekeepers than mentioning Native bees!

Thanks for that.

 

[For want of a better word]

Thanks for that.

I need to add that these were my own findings from three or so years ago, when I asked what exactly the BBKA insurance covered, as it had been refused by one of our local ( Devon Stannary Town) farmers markets.
I never received a written answer.
Yeghes da

 

[Teemore]

I have encountered the situation where a Certificate of Insurance was refused by a local Council for a Fair/Fayre Day. They wanted their own pro-forma completed by the insurers to confirm that I was adequately insured. Quite literally, it asked for confirmation that i was adequately insured! It was the work of a few minutes to sort this out.

Following discussion with other Council Staff, I learned that they were worried that soem of their staff would not be able to read cover notes and discern whether adequate and appropriate insurance cover was in place for a given event/individual. They therefore decided to place the onus back on participants and their insurers so it was not really a case of not accepting the insurance...

Thorn asked about feedback in relation to insurance cover. I can confirm that BBKA insurance paid out in settlement when a claim was made jointly against a full member of the BBKA, a golf club, and the claimant's employer. I understand that the claimant was, at the time of injury, a bee inspector and was injured when he slipped in the course of carrying out an inspection. (he subsequently remarked to me that he had a certain reputation for slipping but that he was not unduly clumsy) I have been informed that neither the beekeeper or golf course were notified that the inspection was being carried out but there may be additonal information to which I am not party.

BBKA insurance has also paid out in settlement where a third party was struck by materials from a marquee (BKA display stand) that was blown over by a sudden squal.

 

[Almorley]

The BBKA PL Policy will (and does) make regular payments for beekeepers who are liable in whatever (PL) claim is being brought against them. This could be alleged injury, defamation, negligence, nuisance, breach of contract, possibly even a threatened injunction (etc). What is critical in my view is the fact there are significant legal defence costs available under the terms of the policy where the beekeeper is not liable and cases will often be defended (potentially to trial if necessary). Clearly it isn't conceived to be a commercial product so won't offer cover/protection in those circumstances but I think the restrictions in the policy are fairly well publicised (I think there was an article in the BBKA magazine when new cover had been arranged with a summary by the new Broker regarding this). It's not a bad product for not a lot of cost in the BBKA membership package.

 

[Poly Hive]

The problem seems to be that when individuals or couples if you like get to the point where they are producing rather more than a couple of hives worth and want to do some selling.

ITLD mentioned a bolt on to the BFA scheme but whether that came to fruition or not I don't know.

PH

 

[dpearce4]

I have encountered the situation where a Certificate of Insurance was refused by a local Council for a Fair/Fayre Day. They wanted their own pro-forma completed by the insurers to confirm that I was adequately insured. Quite literally, it asked for confirmation that i was adequately insured! It was the work of a few minutes to sort this out.

Following discussion with other Council Staff, I learned that they were worried that soem of their staff would not be able to read cover notes and discern whether adequate and appropriate insurance cover was in place for a given event/individual. They therefore decided to place the onus back on participants and their insurers so it was not really a case of not accepting the insurance...

Thorn asked about feedback in relation to insurance cover. I can confirm that BBKA insurance paid out in settlement when a claim was made jointly against a full member of the BBKA, a golf club, and the claimant's employer. I understand that the claimant was, at the time of injury, a bee inspector and was injured when he slipped in the course of carrying out an inspection. (he subsequently remarked to me that he had a certain reputation for slipping but that he was not unduly clumsy) I have been informed that neither the beekeeper or golf course were notified that the inspection was being carried out but there may be additonal information to which I am not party.

BBKA insurance has also paid out in settlement where a third party was struck by materials from a marquee (BKA display stand) that was blown over by a sudden squal.

I think i would be asking the question of the inspector what the hell he was going through my hives without even telling me, let alone me not being there. The don't have the right to do that. I think I would have counter sued for damages to my equipment etc.

 

[For want of a better word]

The BBKA PL Policy will (and does) make regular payments for beekeepers who are liable in whatever (PL) claim is being brought against them. This could be alleged injury, defamation, negligence, nuisance, breach of contract, possibly even a threatened injunction (etc). What is critical in my view is the fact there are significant legal defence costs available under the terms of the policy where the beekeeper is not liable and cases will often be defended (potentially to trial if necessary). Clearly it isn't conceived to be a commercial product so won't offer cover/protection in those circumstances but I think the restrictions in the policy are fairly well publicised (I think there was an article in the BBKA magazine when new cover had been arranged with a summary by the new Broker regarding this). It's not a bad product for not a lot of cost in the BBKA membership package.

I think that there is some confusion over Public Liability cover and Products Liability cover

Our own experience was that neither was accepted by a Farmers/ Food market management in one town in Devon as it was inadequate.
Hence procurement of insurance that was fit for purpose... selling to the public in an open market.

Public liability cover for any claim against the stall holder ( is stall falling on them) and indemnity against the market owners.
Product Liability cover for any of the products or services we offer in out business
£10 million in both cases.

Perhaps the BBKA scheme ( not the BDI although similar) is designed for those who are hobby beekeepers and not even small or micro businesses?

Perhaps the BBKA insurance should state NOT for commercial or business use !

Yeghes da

 

[thorn]

The BBKA PL Policy will (and does) make regular payments for beekeepers who are liable in whatever (PL) claim is being brought against them. This could be alleged injury, defamation, negligence, nuisance, breach of contract, possibly even a threatened injunction (etc). What is critical in my view is the fact there are significant legal defence costs available under the terms of the policy where the beekeeper is not liable and cases will often be defended (potentially to trial if necessary). Clearly it isn't conceived to be a commercial product so won't offer cover/protection in those circumstances but I think the restrictions in the policy are fairly well publicised (I think there was an article in the BBKA magazine when new cover had been arranged with a summary by the new Broker regarding this). It's not a bad product for not a lot of cost in the BBKA membership package.

Do you know of any cases that went to trial? If so, could you let me know the details so I can explore and log them. Teemore's case was an Occupiers Liability/Employers Liability case, involving a slippery approach to an apiary. The beekeeping was incidental.
I'd like to have a record of all cases involving claims relating to bees and beekeeping to put on this forum. There are frequently posts expressing a fear of being claimed against, but I've yet to find anything concrete.

 

[psafloyd]

The BBKA PL Policy will (and does) make regular payments for beekeepers who are liable in whatever (PL) claim is being brought against them. This could be alleged injury, defamation, negligence, nuisance, breach of contract, possibly even a threatened injunction (etc). What is critical in my view is the fact there are significant legal defence costs available under the terms of the policy where the beekeeper is not liable and cases will often be defended (potentially to trial if necessary). Clearly it isn't conceived to be a commercial product so won't offer cover/protection in those circumstances but I think the restrictions in the policy are fairly well publicised (I think there was an article in the BBKA magazine when new cover had been arranged with a summary by the new Broker regarding this). It's not a bad product for not a lot of cost in the BBKA membership package.

I had a chat with the broker at last year's BBKA ADM and there is an awful lot more cover under the new policy.