Insurance ??

[Tonych224]

Dear all, I have searched the forum and read lots in this but haven't found a clear answer.

My wife and I attend from time to time local craft fairs etc selling honey and other related products, ie Honey Mustard, Marinades, Cup Cakes to name but a few, ( both of us have our Level 2 CIEH ) we want to start doing more of these events and from due diligence we should probably have insurance for it, after speaking with a couple of insurance companies who come back with differing advice as to what I need, but of course they just want a sale and then to screw me later!

Product direct from the hive eg Pure Honey I understand as being 3rd Party insured by my membership to BBKA but what about the other products...

Does anyone know what type of insurance I would need and what classification ( market trader, cook, Food industry, the list goes on...)

 

[Erichalfbee]

Don't forget to tell the taxman

 

[itma]

Product direct from the hive eg Pure Honey I understand as being 3rd Party insured by my membership to BBKA but what about the other products...

My understanding is that the BBKA cover does only apply to 'primary' products, eg beeswax, and not to derived products, eg beeswax furniture polish.

Derived food products are clearly in a different ballpark, and something not many would do, but many do produce and offer polish as a means of unloading their wax. I wonder if anyone bothers with cover?



Incidentally, I'd also agree with Erica that, in the light of JacStraw's informative post on tax aspects, the activities Tonych224 is undertaking do sound very much like "trading" and if so would be declarable income.

 

[peteinwilts]

My understanding is that the BBKA cover does only apply to 'primary' products, eg beeswax, and not to derived products, eg beeswax furniture polish.

Derived food products are clearly in a different ballpark, and something not many would do, but many do produce and offer polish as a means of unloading their wax. I wonder if anyone bothers with cover?



Incidentally, I'd also agree with Erica that, in the light of JacStraw's informative post on tax aspects, the activities Tonych224 is undertaking do sound very much like "trading" and if so would be declarable income.

I would be very interested to read the small print for the BBKA. (I am not a member). Rumours suggest the insurance does not cover selling to members of the public (which would automatically turn it into a business).
Also, I hear there are fcc irregularitys.

Would be interested to know if it is true...

 

[Tonych224]

Incidentally, I'd also agree with Erica that, in the light of JacStraw's informative post on tax aspects, the activities Tonych224 is undertaking do sound very much like "trading" and if so would be declarable income.

I am still trying to find the post from him, but cannot, if someone has a link the could post I would appreciate it.

 

[Tonych224]

I would be very interested to read the small print for the BBKA. (I am not a member). Rumours suggest the insurance does not cover selling to members of the public (which would automatically turn it into a business).

Also, I hear there are fcc irregularitys.



Would be interested to know if it is true...

So am I the only BEEK that would consider selling honey to the public ?

 

[itma]

I am still trying to find the post from him, but cannot, if someone has a link the could post I would appreciate it.

I've tried to 'sticky' reference it, but my effort is "awaiting moderation" ... /// Just this minute passed!

Anyway http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=464279&postcount=80

 

[alanf]

Plenty of beekeepers sell jars of honey, either from their home (i.e. farm gate) or a stall at fetes and fairs. They generally have only the "product liability" provision of the BBKA included insurance as cover. I'm not aware of any recent claims, successful or not, that would suggest whether the cover is enough. It looks to be much the same as insurance through biobees or WBKA or SBA and other non-BBKA routes as much as I've read.

Insurance is not compulsory for selling anything. It is a contractual obligation for many organised farmers and other markets. What level you need is really set by their conditions, so the market organisers are the people to ask since they will be passing any paperwork. Once you're considered to be a "food business" there are several considerations. Food handling training is one and baked goods are higher risk than a primary product like honey. Food premises registration with the local authority. And as already written, tax.

 

[Stiffy]

Join the market traders association and you will be covered
S

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[For want of a better word]

The BBKA insurance is very thin, and not very transparent!

On a thread elsewhere was a similar discussion re insurance.
we have a "Smallholders policy" with the NFU mutual Insurance, covers everything beekeeping (stock) from theft to losses from notifiable disease... to public liability and product liability.
I looked at market traders policies and the one from the Market traders Association...( ok for jam & chutney sellers!) with a few other companies, but ( when I combined household and boats and bicycle insurances) the NFU Mutual worked out the best for our circumstances.


Shop around and read the small print ... and ask insurers :do you cover this??

Yeghes da

 

[dpearce4]

if you have more than 40 hives you could think about joining the BFA (bee farmers ass) their insurance is more business based than the bbka. they have a website with contact details, you could contact them?

 

[MuswellMetro]

from the BBKA FAQ on insurance, I use their certificate at a market with no problems though only for surplus honey

7. I sell honey and wax products at farmers’ markets and local shows and they
need proof of Third Party Public Liability and Product Insurance.
The Verification of Insurance document available for download and printing from the
BBKA website is sufficient to satisfy this requirement. You will need to log-in with
your membership number and password to access the file, which can be found at
http://www.-------------/members/insurance/public_liability_insurance.
8. I make a range of skin care products that I sell at markets and via retail
outlets – am I covered for Product Liability if anyone makes a claim against me?
The BBKA policy only covers primary hive products – defined as wax, honey and
propolis with no other added ingredients. Some examples of covered products are
pure honey, lip balms consisting of honey and beeswax with no extra ingredients, and
candles with no perfumes or colourings.
The restriction applies because if a product with added ingredients proves to be faulty,
it is difficult and sometimes impossible to prove whether it was the hive ingredient or
additive at fault.
For instance, if cakes were covered, the insurance company would require lists of all
products made and ingredients used by each and every member, and every product
would need to comply with food hygiene and production standards. Premiums would
be payable on an individual basis and therefore prohibitively high.

 

[For want of a better word]

from the BBKA FAQ on insurance, I use their certificate at a market with no problems though only for surplus honey

7. I sell honey and wax products at farmers’ markets and local shows and they
need proof of Third Party Public Liability and Product Insurance.
The Verification of Insurance document available for download and printing from the
BBKA website is sufficient to satisfy this requirement. You will need to log-in with
your membership number and password to access the file, which can be found at
http://www.-------------/members/insurance/public_liability_insurance.
8. I make a range of skin care products that I sell at markets and via retail
outlets – am I covered for Product Liability if anyone makes a claim against me?
The BBKA policy only covers primary hive products – defined as wax, honey and
propolis with no other added ingredients. Some examples of covered products are
pure honey, lip balms consisting of honey and beeswax with no extra ingredients, and
candles with no perfumes or colourings.
The restriction applies because if a product with added ingredients proves to be faulty,
it is difficult and sometimes impossible to prove whether it was the hive ingredient or
additive at fault.
For instance, if cakes were covered, the insurance company would require lists of all
products made and ingredients used by each and every member, and every product
would need to comply with food hygiene and production standards. Premiums would
be payable on an individual basis and therefore prohibitively high.

Be sure then, you only sell candles without wicks... surely that must be an added ingredient !

 

[jd101k2000]

It's OK as long as you only use wicks made of plaited bee hair. I believe JBM sells the relevant combs.

 

[alanf]

"...The BBKA policy only covers primary hive products – defined as wax, honey and propolis with no other added ingredients. Some examples of covered products are pure honey, lip balms consisting of honey and beeswax with no extra ingredients, and candles with no perfumes or colourings..."

Not sure it could be argued the definition of "primary products" would extend to a compounded product like lip balm. Not that it's a practical recipe and wouldn't that need approval as a cosmetic too?

The other theoretical area of uncertainty of product liability would be containers and other additions. Exploding candle wicks are unlikely but supplying honey in containers not suitable for food might be a realistic scenario. Coloured rolled candles seem to be another frequently seen product that is uncovered too.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Not sure it could be argued the definition of "primary products" would extend to a compounded product like lip balm. Not that it's a practical recipe and wouldn't that need approval as a cosmetic too?

The other theoretical area of uncertainty of product liability would be containers and other additions. Exploding candle wicks are unlikely but supplying honey in containers not suitable for food might be a realistic scenario. Coloured rolled candles seem to be another frequently seen product that is uncovered too.

perhaps someone could ask for clarification and drop a line to HISCOX the BBKA insurance underwriters

i had enough discussions with them on bumblebee collecting, so i am not likley to get a helpful reply if i do it

 

[Tim1606]

Not sure it could be argued the definition of "primary products" would extend to a compounded product like lip balm. Not that it's a practical recipe and wouldn't that need approval as a cosmetic too?

The other theoretical area of uncertainty of product liability would be containers and other additions. Exploding candle wicks are unlikely but supplying honey in containers not suitable for food might be a realistic scenario. Coloured rolled candles seem to be another frequently seen product that is uncovered too.

Any form of cosmetic. i.e lip balm etc must have a cosmetic safety assessment to legally sell to the public.

 

[td4bees]

from the BBKA FAQ on insurance, I use their certificate at a market with no problems though only for surplus honey

7. I sell honey and wax products at farmers’ markets and local shows and they
need proof of Third Party Public Liability and Product Insurance.
The Verification of Insurance document available for download and printing from the
BBKA website is sufficient to satisfy this requirement. You will need to log-in with
your membership number and password to access the file, which can be found at
http://www.-------------/members/insurance/public_liability_insurance.
8. I make a range of skin care products that I sell at markets and via retail
outlets – am I covered for Product Liability if anyone makes a claim against me?
The BBKA policy only covers primary hive products – defined as wax, honey and
propolis with no other added ingredients. Some examples of covered products are
pure honey, lip balms consisting of honey and beeswax with no extra ingredients, and
candles with no perfumes or colourings.
The restriction applies because if a product with added ingredients proves to be faulty,
it is difficult and sometimes impossible to prove whether it was the hive ingredient or
additive at fault.
For instance, if cakes were covered, the insurance company would require lists of all
products made and ingredients used by each and every member, and every product
would need to comply with food hygiene and production standards. Premiums would
be payable on an individual basis and therefore prohibitively high.

well not that my opinion counts, but I think you just told everyone that you are not insured.

 

[itma]

well not that my opinion counts, but I think you just told everyone that you are not insured.

It would count for a whole lot more if you were to read a little more carefully!

The questions in bold red, beginning with a 7 and an 8 are "FAQs" - examples of the questions that people frequently ask the insurer.

The poster (MM) says he sells honey ONLY - and the answer to Question 7 makes clear that he (MM) is appropriately insured.