Influence of different genotypes in the hive?

[Thymallus]

Sorry, you are quite right. I was confusing myself with meiotic segregation and drone sperm.
But do go on about the toenails

 

[B+.]

The major concern with drones is not their slight (if any) genetic variability but their sex alleles which will determine which queens they mate either having successful offspring or diploid drones.

I agree. Inbreeding is one of the things I pay close attention to.
If you look at the korshein for the queen I intend to use as a drone mother next year (6-172-15-2013-K) you can see the inbreeding coefficient is 0.5% for the queen and 0.2% for the workers. The virgins I will raise next year are from completely unrelated mother colonies. My only concern is whether I'll be able to raise enough mature drones from the drone mother.

 

[For want of a better word]

With my axolotl breeding I try to introduce "wild type" genes into the gene pool to introduce some hybrid vigor.
Too easy to inbreed... but I have never been able to get a dark eyed "albino" male... dark eyed albino females are quite common... where i say albino this is not a true type as a true albino would have pink eyes!
If I mate a pink eyed female with a pink eyed male 25 % of ( female) offspring will be dark eyed females.

Recessive genes throw up many problems.. with Salamanders as well as honeybees.
I am not at all surprised that our big fishy Yorkshire accademik has a job getting his toenails polished!

Yeghes da

 

[Tremyfro]

With my axolotl breeding I try to introduce "wild type" genes into the gene pool to introduce some hybrid vigor.
Too easy to inbreed... but I have never been able to get a dark eyed "albino" male... dark eyed albino females are quite common... where i say albino this is not a true type as a true albino would have pink eyes!
If I mate a pink eyed female with a pink eyed male 25 % of ( female) offspring will be dark eyed females.

Recessive genes throw up many problems.. with Salamanders as well as honeybees.
I am not at all surprised that our big fishy Yorkshire accademik has a job getting his toenails polished!

Yeghes da

So you didn't drown yesterday? I told you that you should make sure you had a foghorn!
PS your post is a load of drivel.

 

[mjt68]

Well this has gotten pretty far away from the original topic. Interesting though. I said what I did as that is the norm over most insects, but I see honeybees are a little different. Seems to be some evidence of sperm competition and paternity rates vary between the different drones a queen mates with (e.g. http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00265-004-0806-5 and http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347202930782)

Drones are not clones of the queen - there is substantial crossing-over in bees (http://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005189), the mutation rate will add even more variation.

 

[B+.]

Drones are not clones of the queen

Lets not forget that the queen usually mates with many drones. Its one of the survival strategies that bees use to enable the colony to face unforseen challenges.
When we breed from individual drone mothers (or, in some cases, even single drones) we are focussing in on a particular combination to meet a specific breeding objective. This reduces the long-term viability of the colony and great care must be exercised in subsequent generations to avoid inbreeding and re-establish that.
The colony level models use statistics to approximate to the diploid breeding we are used to with domesticated farm animals and provide estimated breeding values. Its all statistics

 

[For want of a better word]

So you didn't drown yesterday? I told you that you should make sure you had a foghorn!
PS your post is a load of drivel.

Could we please kick the ball and not the player.

My salamander genetic behavioral trait was attempting to bring something about recessive gene influences.
Drones carrying genetic information down the breeding line from their grandmother can possibly bring to bear influences on the whole colony?
This would be dependent upon the queen's genetics.. the one that the drone mated with, allowing the recessive gene to dominate.

Therefore as with all line breeding looking at the grandparents genetics is as important as looking at the parents... and as a queen can mate with many drones with a plethora of queen's genes, in openmating particularly with F2 generation hybrids it is a lottery and not at all simple!!

Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

I am not at all surprised that our big fishy Yorkshire accademik has a job getting his toenails polished!

Still the Henry Kissinger of the bee forum I note.

 

[Tremyfro]

Could we please kick the ball and not the player.

My salamander genetic behavioral trait was attempting to bring something about recessive gene influences.
Drones carrying genetic information down the breeding line from their grandmother can possibly bring to bear influences on the whole colony?
This would be dependent upon the queen's genetics.. the one that the drone mated with, allowing the recessive gene to dominate.

Therefore as with all line breeding looking at the grandparents genetics is as important as looking at the parents... and as a queen can mate with many drones with a plethora of queen's genes, in openmating particularly with F2 generation hybrids it is a lottery and not at all simple!!

Yeghes da

If your recessive gene is pink eyes and is seen..in the pink eyes...and as you say both parents with pink eyes...therefore recessive genes. Therefore..parents can't be carrying dominant dark eye colour....therefore all offspring will have pink eyes. Or your pink eyes gene is not recessive.

 

[For want of a better word]

If your recessive gene is pink eyes and is seen..in the pink eyes...and as you say both parents with pink eyes...therefore recessive genes. Therefore..parents can't be carrying dominant dark eye colour....therefore all offspring will have pink eyes. Or your pink eyes gene is not recessive.

No totally wrong.. axolotls remember are diploid the recessive gene seems only to be represented by dark eyes.. but only in females.... and then not all of the females... depends on their great grandparents
Grandparents may have expressed dark eyes but parents did not.

Sometimes a line of pinked eyed axolotles will produce dark eyed females and even male wild type coloration with pink eyes, but not dark.

A lady spent most of her academic career growing and crossing sweetcorn before she stumbled upon this recessive gene thing.
total admiration for her tenacity... things are never as simple as they may seem particularly to those who want to simplify matters to attempt to simplify things... or is that far much more information than you had asked for
But thanks for your twopennyworth of input!

Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

A lady spent most of her academic career growing and crossing sweetcorn before she stumbled upon this recessive gene thing.

And there was simple old me thinking it was a monk working with peas that first described recessive genes.

 

[B+.]

And there was simple old me thinking it was a monk working with peas that first described recessive genes.

They didn't believe Mendel though ;-)

 

[Thymallus]

They didn't believe Mendel though ;-)

Nor Darwin. It's uncanny reading his book how accurately he described inheritance, when genes and DNA were totally unknown entities at the time.

 

[Thymallus]

No totally wrong.. axolotls remember are diploid the recessive gene seems only to be represented by dark eyes.. but only in females.... and then not all of the females... depends on their great grandparents

From your description it is not simple dominant vs recessive genes for axelots in this coloration of eyes as it doesn't work in the males. Sounds more like a sex linked trait, particularly with the pink intermediates which may suggest gene dosage, or a linkage to the albinoism
But what the hell would I know. ehhh.

 

[For want of a better word]

From your description it is not simple dominant vs recessive genes for axelots in this coloration of eyes as it doesn't work in the males. Sounds more like a sex linked trait, particularly with the pink intermediates which may suggest gene dosage, or a linkage to the albinoism
But what the hell would I know. ehhh.

My life's work ... saving extinct species!
Seems there is some kind of genetic inhibitance rather the dominance going on here... not simple at all!

Yeghes da

 

[Thymallus]

Seems there is some kind of genetic inhibitance rather the dominance going on here... not simple at all!

Its pretty straightforward, just google colorblindness in males, humans not axelots.

 

[For want of a better word]

Its pretty straightforward, just google colorblindness in males, humans not axelots.

Very droll... almost as funny as when Sharps got pulled up for making and bottling Doom Bar in Burton on Trent! fortunately down here we have the real Rock stuff on tap!... may explain my earlier taste for Bass.
How did you know I suffer from colour blindness?


Yeghes da

Blue is my favorite shade of grey!

 

[Thymallus]

Very droll...

Far from it. A classic example of a sex linked gene that can be expressed even though it is can be present as a single recessive gene, but only in the male population.

 

[mjt68]

Nor Darwin. It's uncanny reading his book how accurately he described inheritance, when genes and DNA were totally unknown entities at the time.

Who? Darwin? He was dead wrong about inheritance and he readily admitted he didn't have an explanation. Foremost theory back then was blending theory of inherit which was incorrect. One of the few gaps in his theory.

 

[mjt68]

Far from it. A classic example of a sex linked gene that can be expressed even though it is can be present as a single recessive gene, but only in the male population.

Sex-linkage (or sex-biased expression) is not exactly a canonical recessive gene. Nice question to try and trip students up though!